Fiverr Community Forum

-1% For Every Refund? Really?

Yes, I saw that somewhere, but Fiverr doesn’t provide that information.

I keep track of all my sales, but since these rates are based on 60 days, it would take too long to count all my sales, count all my refunds, and find out if Fiverr got the math done.

I’m suspicious because sometimes it feels like I need to deliver 5 or 10 orders to raise my order completion rate by +1%, and sometimes it doesn’t even happen.

My refund rate for April was 5.44%
My refund rate for March was 11.7%
The average of both is 8.57% so in a 60 day period, my order completion rate should be 91.43%

Either way, the seller level system is a huge failure. I am making less money, I didn’t even get my TRS level back even though Fiverr told me I had been nominated, and I see no benefit whatsoever.

All I see is good people being demoted, making less money, which means Fiverr makes less money. But nobody cares, nobody listens to us.

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total all the orders placed in last 60 days
count the no of order completed and cancelled
to see your completion rate : total orders completed in 60 days/ total orders

sometimes it takes more than 10 orders to get it back up by 1 percent

Please
get
rid
of
this
lame
system
now

I haven’t been able to sell more than 7 gigs in months. I should honestly be a TRS right now.

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Cheer up guys, we will be getting pay per click soon so you can pay each time someone clicks on your gig. That should help your sales.

Seriously? We’ll get paid even if they don’t order? Why would Fiverr do that?

That’s the issue. The system is designed to demote us. If one refund is -1% and 10+ deliveries is +1%, how can anybody win? How can anyone not end up being demoted?

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It should work out if you go by this:

Not like that. Sellers can promote their gigs Paying Per Click. Here, Seller will pay, not Fiverr. So far I read, anyone can boost their sales through PPC whether s/he is new seller or TRS.

when you contact support regarding the issue, they themselves say cancellation is a part of business and cannot be denied.
yet we face consequences for the obvious part of business. how are we supposed to work when a buyer is irresponsible, place order and provide insufficient details and then decide not to communicate with the seller.
we cannot deliver for obvious reasons that without complete details we cannot complete the work.
cancellation is the only option

something must be done regarding this

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OK, according to the formula, I have 4 cancellations in April, 6 in March, that’s a total of 10 cancellations in 60 days. If guess if I’ve had had 100 sales, I’d be at 90%.

There was something like that in the past, but it was commission based. You pay an additional 5 to 20% commission, you choose, and Fiverr promotes your gig. The program was discontinued quickly, it wasn’t offered for all gigs.

This new stuff sounds better.

You’d have to use more than a guess, though. Maybe you could ask Support to confirm your numbers for total orders and cancellations?

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Imagine if every order is +1 or -1, it would mean that anyone can cancel as many orders as they wish so long as they complete the same amount of orders. The 60 day system tries to diminish any cancellation possibilities at all. Fair, but definitely interesting considering the fact that if someone only takes on 1 project every 60 days, the stats will be 100% - it doesn’t take into account the amount of orders actually completed. (Though it technically does, it doesn’t.)

I think that some of us should create math courses gigs for Fiverr rates! We would make a success!
Different people have already explained the calculation on the forum and I have already answered you on another thread:

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Let’s see how much better it is once they implement it

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That’s fine by me. It would reward those of us who work hard.

That’s a great point. The new system rewards those who don’t take risks, those with few sales and no refunds. Someone making $10,000 a month will be demoted if his 90% becomes 89%. Or look at the star rating. I didn’t care about being 4.7 until I was demoted twice. So what did I do? I deleted most o the gigs that had a rating under 4.8. Eventually my rating jumped to 5.0, not 4.9 thanks to one 4.5 star review.

But then again, I support Fiverr making money.



Context:

When I say that I support Fiverr making money it is because I truly believe the new leveling system is actually working out for Fiverr. Fiverr has to be making more money otherwise they would do away with it.
Additionally, it is safe to say that levels mean nothing when it comes to actually making sales on Fiverr. Now, obviously, the shiny TRS/Level 2 badge may or may not make a possible seller choose you over a different vendor however, if you are providing a great, quality service - quality is what actually seals the deal.
Levels do not make your gig appear or disappear from search results (at least from my lab test)
The factor sealing the deal: Quality work. (again, at least from my lab test)

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Your context is interesting, but demotions have been proven to decrease the income of the seller, thus they decrease the income of Fiverr. I have never met a demoted TRS who claims to be making more money.

Also, corporations sometimes have progressive values where money isn’t always the only goal. Chick-Fil-A closes on Sundays for religious reasons, Dick’s Sporting Goods stops selling “assault” weapons for political reasons even though this will cost them many customers.

So it would be erroneous to assume the level system was driven by the profit motive. What the level system does is ignore the money sellers make and focus on unimportant data like order completion and rating.

Did you know that a demotion might mean the seller has to pause some gigs? The number of gigs we’re allowed to have are based on our level. The gigs I paused and later deleted will never make money again. But what choice did I have? Unlike Fiverr, I do worry about my profit and since bad reviews and refunds hurt it, I have no choice but to pause/delete problem gigs.

I suspect (but don’t know) that Fiverr’s primary goal at this early stage is to jettison a bunch of flotsam. They are aware that they will jettison some perfectly good cargo in the process and they probably don’t love that, but they might see it as a worthwhile sacrifice in the short term. This sounds really cold when you think of sellers as people who have been with Fiverr for some time and have bills to pay. At the same time, I’ve seen Fiverr try a few other moves to dump some excess and this has been the fastest way so far.

This theory is that the mid-range goal is to make it too difficult for low-quality sellers to make it back up the ladder while letting the cream start to rise back toward the top. It might work since the higher quality sellers are also usually able to understand the new leveling process and make adjustments, even though it may take some time. January or February came up fast for everyone and it was a big change compared to the ease of keeping levels in 2017. Perhaps many of the good sellers will rise up and many of the low quality sellers will fail to understand how to level back, fail to show enough skill or will just give up.

If that all did happen, the early months might not make the most money for Fiverr and will vary widely for sellers. In my category, a huge number of level 2 sellers disappeared so my sales went up. I’m sure some categories are taking punches, especially ones where cancellations are most common.

In the long run, though, Fiverr could end up with pool of higher quality sellers with level 1-2-TRS and that pool would look good to buyers. Prices would go up more for TRS and probably other leveled sellers. Newbies at level 0 wouldn’t make much but the ones that couldn’t level up (flotsam) would only be around for the extreme bargain hunters. In time, the newly polished leveled sellers would make money for themselves and for Fiverr.

Note - All just a theory and probably TLDR for some. No biggie, just expressing some thoughts. :slight_smile:

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It would be interesting to know what the grand plan is for the site. It looks like it is being steered in new directions. There seems to be some sort of discontent with the status quo up to this point. I hope they don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater.

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As I mentioned in my analysis, it was all done in my lab. I’m speaking from my personal experience. I can’t talk/vouch for other individuals. I just know that for me personally, the level thingy didn’t do me ya or nay.

I’ve never been a TRS to have an opinion on this.

You said it - “only goal” - though it sure is a BIG factor in what changes will and will not be made overall.

As eloquently as @fonthaunt mentioned, they may or may not have a rise in profits in the initial stages. Yet I think the purpose is to try and have the cream of the crop to remain afloat.

All I can say, Fiverr does hint that more gigs don’t mean more placements in search.

I think Fiverr is trying to limit the amount of gigs sellers can have so that they can focus on several things they are really good at. (Source: Pro gigs update, removal of gigs out of the editorial focus etc.)

By the way, we may not agree with the new system in place, but surely the old system was enabling problem sellers to feature a badge even though they shouldn’t have it.

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Your explanation is one of the best I have read so far.

If that’s goal, maybe instead of 90% it should be 80%, instead of 4.8 it should be 4.6 or 4.5. I have heard horror stories of great sellers that have been demoted.

Unless it drives people away from Fiverr. Every new seller on this website will be telling his friends and family about it, they are Fiverr’s brand evangelists. If Fiverr becomes too exclusive, I’m afraid less people will hear about this brand.

A supermarket that only sells cream will have a very limited customer base. I would rather shop at Publix or Wynn Dixie over Whole Foods. Whole Foods is overpriced and overrated for my needs.

I’m happy for those sellers selling stuff for $900, but if we all followed their example, traffic here would drop to a trickle. It is the bargains that drive traffic. If you’re a fan of the TV series Mr. Selfridge, you’ll see how he turned a premium store into one that welcomed shoppers of all budgets.

This obsession with “quality” is only going to drive prices up and traffic down. It goes against the principles of volume selling, the reason why Walmart makes millions selling items with small profit margins.

Besides, even a “bad experience” on Fiverr can have a positive result. Some buyers are “promiscuous,” they buy from many sellers within the same category. Even “bad sellers” can drive business to good sellers.