Buyer cancelled a £250 order to get music video for free

[philipkapadia]

Hi all,

Sorry If I rant a bit, I’m not happy about this at all.

I deliver a film to a buyer, They say they like it generally. They give me a few revisions, I’m prepared to do them. I start working on the revisions, and the buyer gets back to me: ‘I’ve had a call with my manager, and your initial delivery dosen’t align with my vision for this video - therefore I have to pull the plug on this.’ The buyer forgets to mark the order as in revision so 3 days later the order is marked as complete, then: Cancelled Payment Refunded to Buyer. I assume the client has been in contact with customer support telling them that my order isn’t good enough for them, and they’d like their money back.

In other words, I’ve been screwed over by this particular client. They got a music video for free by lying that they were not happy with the rough cut. I think more control needs to go into sellers hands, essentially - Every gig on fiverr is free now, because any client can claim that a sellers delivery ‘isn’t good enough’

What could I possibly do to get my hard earned money back?

[looseink]

I hate to say this, but you do know that there is a possibility that the Buyer was right, right?

I’m not picking on you.

But some Buyers are difficult.

Maybe the Buyer had a vision of what you could do and as stated, it didn’t quite align with it.

It happens.

Sadly, the Buyer did not put the order into revision, which may have helped you a bit on that situation.

I would just go forward from here.

Use it as a lesson and maybe tighten up your Gig requirements by adding something about revisions require (fill in the blank).

Don’t let this spoil your feelings about Fiverr or freelancing.

Maybe block the Buyer as well.

Hopefully, you were professional in all communication so that you don’t have something come back to bite you later.

[philipkapadia]

I hate to say this, but you do know that there is a possibility that the Buyer was right, right?

I’m not picking on you.

But some Buyers are difficult.

Maybe the Buyer had a vision of what you could do and as stated, it didn’t quite align with it.

It happens.

Sadly, the Buyer did not put the order into revision, which may have helped you a bit on that situation.

I would just go forward from here.

Use it as a lesson and maybe tighten up your Gig requirements by adding something about revisions require (fill in the blank).

Don’t let this spoil your feelings about Fiverr or freelancing.

Maybe block the Buyer as well.

Hopefully, you were professional in all communication so that you don’t have something come back to bite you later.

Hi, Sorry - I wrote this in a bit of a rush haha.

Yeah so as I said earlier, the client was initially happy with my rough cut, Only once he got a call from his management he decided to cancel this order. (i’m convinced it’s because he simply does not want to pay.) The issue I have is that clients can essentially get away for not paying for a buyers hard work. It’s almost like shoplifting. I think regardless wheather the delivery was good or not, A buyer makes a decision based on a sellers portfolio and reviews and that’s a risk the buyer should take, not the seller.

I do feel that this was a good rough cut, and It’s reinforced by the client’s initial comments about the video.

Irritating that they can get away with this… This is my 19th order on this site, and now my order completion rate has suffered.

[kometbeats]

Hi all,

Sorry If I rant a bit, I’m not happy about this at all.

I deliver a film to a buyer, They say they like it generally. They give me a few revisions, I’m prepared to do them. I start working on the revisions, and the buyer gets back to me: ‘I’ve had a call with my manager, and your initial delivery dosen’t align with my vision for this video - therefore I have to pull the plug on this.’ The buyer forgets to mark the order as in revision so 3 days later the order is marked as complete, then: Cancelled Payment Refunded to Buyer. I assume the client has been in contact with customer support telling them that my order isn’t good enough for them, and they’d like their money back.

In other words, I’ve been screwed over by this particular client. They got a music video for free by lying that they were not happy with the rough cut. I think more control needs to go into sellers hands, essentially - Every gig on fiverr is free now, because any client can claim that a sellers delivery ‘isn’t good enough’

What could I possibly do to get my hard earned money back?

They got a music video for free by lying that they were not happy with the rough cut.

Not sure who in their right mind would use a rough cut as a final product especially if they were ready to spend £250 on it, and if the rough cut was that good then you need to make your rough cuts a bit less polished(?).

I don’t know, personally I have to side with the buyer on this one.

[philipkapadia]

They got a music video for free by lying that they were not happy with the rough cut.

Not sure who in their right mind would use a rough cut as a final product especially if they were ready to spend £250 on it, and if the rough cut was that good then you need to make your rough cuts a bit less polished(?).

I don’t know, personally I have to side with the buyer on this one.

I completely agree with you. The whole point of a rough cut is so it can be refined. As I say, I was very happy to refine and work with the buyer on the specific revisions he had, But he pulled the plug based on the rough cut alone. I find it disingenuous that his initial comments were excellent, but then this…

[kometbeats]

I completely agree with you. The whole point of a rough cut is so it can be refined. As I say, I was very happy to refine and work with the buyer on the specific revisions he had, But he pulled the plug based on the rough cut alone. I find it disingenuous that his initial comments were excellent, but then this…

I find it disingenuous that his initial comments were excellent, but then this…

You make a good point there. Although it is possible that they had been making those comments themselves and once they showed it to the director, or their manager, they decided it wasn’t on par with what they needed, in fact, saying that makes me think this person could’ve just been some middle-man that claims he can edit and outsources the work.

[adrian_1976]

This buyer obviously wants to make money off of you. I myself have had a case like this happen, and it’s super annoying. In my case, I got lucky and was able to contact customer support and I guess they decided I was right and refused to refund the order to the buyer. But this happens extremely rare.

I don’t think there is much to do, but you should try to ask them if they would like another revision. See what happens.

[serrakizilkaya]

This kind of situations really annoys me. Partially, you present most of the work to the client at the very beginning and they have the right to use them without payment. So it seems like we just have to deliver them hoping not to be scammed and believing their promises?? i don’t know…

[philipkapadia]

I find it disingenuous that his initial comments were excellent, but then this…

You make a good point there. Although it is possible that they had been making those comments themselves and once they showed it to the director, or their manager, they decided it wasn’t on par with what they needed, in fact, saying that makes me think this person could’ve just been some middle-man that claims he can edit and outsources the work.

It is, But how is that fair? I’ve spent an awful lot of time working on this, I should reimbursed for that time! It shouldn’t be possible to pull the plug once a seller has spent their time working on an order regardless of weather the client is happy or not. Of course I want my buyers to be happy, and I’m always prepared to have a video chat with them and discuss revisions, Which is why I have so many good reviews. But I think regardless of weather the buyer liked the delivery or not, the seller should always be reimbursed for their time.

Reply to Kometbeats

[kometbeats]

It is, But how is that fair? I’ve spent an awful lot of time working on this, I should reimbursed for that time! It shouldn’t be possible to pull the plug once a seller has spent their time working on an order regardless of weather the client is happy or not. Of course I want my buyers to be happy, and I’m always prepared to have a video chat with them and discuss revisions, Which is why I have so many good reviews. But I think regardless of weather the buyer liked the delivery or not, the seller should always be reimbursed for their time.

Reply to Kometbeats

But I think regardless of weather the buyer liked the delivery or not, the seller should always be reimbursed for their time.

I agree but part of the reason, if not the main reason, why Fiverr works so well for buyers is because it ensures that the work buyers receive suit their needs, and if a buyer isn’t getting the value they need then Fiverr makes it easy on them by giving them their money back and encouraging them to look for other sellers.

I understand your frustration because time has gone in but you’ve received nothing in return, but I’d encourage you to just learn from this experience , I learned to stop giving special treatment early on because of bad experiences I had with people that take advantage of that, sadly you learnt that in a much harder way, so, as I mentioned before, make sure the rough cut is rough.

Good luck!

[philipkapadia]

But I think regardless of weather the buyer liked the delivery or not, the seller should always be reimbursed for their time.

I agree but part of the reason, if not the main reason, why Fiverr works so well for buyers is because it ensures that the work buyers receive suit their needs, and if a buyer isn’t getting the value they need then Fiverr makes it easy on them by giving them their money back and encouraging them to look for other sellers.

I understand your frustration because time has gone in but you’ve received nothing in return, but I’d encourage you to just learn from this experience , I learned to stop giving special treatment early on because of bad experiences I had with people that take advantage of that, sadly you learnt that in a much harder way, so, as I mentioned before, make sure the rough cut is rough.

Good luck!

Thank you. It is important to note, and in retrospect this is a big mistake I made. The buyer did offer to reimburse half of the initial order to me, but I declined as I initially wouldn’t be prepared to work on that video for £125, I wanted to recive the full ammount: what I worked very hard for. I didn’t relise this (frankly) loophole existed. I’ll keep all of this in mind. Thanks for the comments all

[philipkapadia]

This kind of situations really annoys me. Partially, you present most of the work to the client at the very beginning and they have the right to use them without payment. So it seems like we just have to deliver them hoping not to be scammed and believing their promises?? i don’t know…

Blockquote So it seems like we just have to deliver them hoping not to be scammed and believing their promises?

Spot on, If I take on a client paying me £1000 and I’d work over 3 months time i’d be shitting myself, any moment they could turn back and cancel the order.

[donnovan86]

The problem I see here is that you DELIVERED a rough cut. If you pressed the delivery button and instead of the finished product you just sent a rough cut… I can see why Fiverr would cancel this.

So, was your rough cut a delivery? Or was it just sent via a message and not the delivery?

[philipkapadia]

The problem I see here is that you DELIVERED a rough cut. If you pressed the delivery button and instead of the finished product you just sent a rough cut… I can see why Fiverr would cancel this.

So, was your rough cut a delivery? Or was it just sent via a message and not the delivery?

I always deliver every cut, So rough cut is a delivery, v1 is another delivery, v2 is another delivery. Isn’t that the point of the ‘in revision status’? I’ve done this for all of my clients…

[moonstaredits]

If it was a rough cut, why did you send it as a final delivery? Was it that good? If not, seller can’t do anything with an unfinished job.

Only final deliveries can be marked as complete. Drafts should be sent through the order page as an attachment file. That’s why it got marked as complete. As long as you don’t send the final delivery you can always ask for extra time in resolution center.

I’m sorry this happened, but it could been preventable.

[philipkapadia]

The problem I see here is that you DELIVERED a rough cut. If you pressed the delivery button and instead of the finished product you just sent a rough cut… I can see why Fiverr would cancel this.

So, was your rough cut a delivery? Or was it just sent via a message and not the delivery?

Perhaps It’s not really a rough cut then, I consider the cut before the client reviews it to be rough… Guess we could call it v1?

[moonstaredits]

I always deliver every cut, So rough cut is a delivery, v1 is another delivery, v2 is another delivery. Isn’t that the point of the ‘in revision status’? I’ve done this for all of my clients…

I always deliver every cut

Be hella cautious because this can easily get an order cancelled and refunded. Sending unfinished work is against Fiverr ToS I think so

[philipkapadia]

If it was a rough cut, why did you send it as a final delivery? Was it that good? If not, seller can’t do anything with an unfinished job.

Only final deliveries can be marked as complete. Drafts should be sent through the order page as an attachment file. That’s why it got marked as complete. As long as you don’t send the final delivery you can always ask for extra time in resolution center.

I’m sorry this happened, but it could been preventable.

Ahh yes I see the issue, Ok these are not drafts or unfinished cuts. This is the first ‘finished’ cut the client sees. I call it rough, because the first cut the client sees always needs refining.

[moonstaredits]

Ahh yes I see the issue, Ok these are not drafts or unfinished cuts. This is the first ‘finished’ cut the client sees. I call it rough, because the first cut the client sees always needs refining.

So it is kind of like a milestone work?

[philipkapadia]

I always deliver every cut

Be hella cautious because this can easily get an order cancelled and refunded. Sending unfinished work is against Fiverr ToS I think so

I mean I don’t deliver work that’s half completed… It’s just rough because the client hasn’t seen it yet. I edit the whole film, then deliver a Rough cut or V1, and then that is set by the client to ‘in revision’ and we proceed from there. I’m not sure how this has got anything to do with this order though?

[moonstaredits]

It is, But how is that fair? I’ve spent an awful lot of time working on this, I should reimbursed for that time! It shouldn’t be possible to pull the plug once a seller has spent their time working on an order regardless of weather the client is happy or not. Of course I want my buyers to be happy, and I’m always prepared to have a video chat with them and discuss revisions, Which is why I have so many good reviews. But I think regardless of weather the buyer liked the delivery or not, the seller should always be reimbursed for their time.

Reply to Kometbeats

I see where you’re coming from and I agree, but how do you reimburse time? It’s impossible.

Maybe a more reasonable solution will be to split the payment in two parts: Seller receives first part in advacement, and the other part when he delivers and the product. The first payment can’t be refunded to buyer, and ONLY exception is that seller doesn’t deliver anything to them/delivers late. At least us sellers secure a payment if we deliver in time, don’t give free samples and buyer has a reasonable risk to take: better to lose half the money than all of it.

And please, there should be a limit to hitting the god-damned revision button, which should be whatever amount of revisions you specified in your gig. Any more than that should be charged as an extra for any amount of money seller wants to. Hitting the revision button can be like tricking the system, some scammers do it because they want the seller to give up and cancel the order: they get the finished work AND a refund, the audacity. It’s abusing the seller at its best. Numerous revisions tend to come from a subjective standpoint that a buyer has of our work.

Our payment shouldn’t be so dependant on -subjective- customer satisfaction. If you deliver each and every item your description says you do, then the problem is the buyer’s taste or opinion about your work, not quality of the work itself.

[philipkapadia]

I see where you’re coming from and I agree, but how do you reimburse time? It’s impossible.

Maybe a more reasonable solution will be to split the payment in two parts: Seller receives first part in advacement, and the other part when he delivers and the product. The first payment can’t be refunded to buyer, and ONLY exception is that seller doesn’t deliver anything to them/delivers late. At least us sellers secure a payment if we deliver in time, don’t give free samples and buyer has a reasonable risk to take: better to lose half the money than all of it.

And please, there should be a limit to hitting the god-damned revision button, which should be whatever amount of revisions you specified in your gig. Any more than that should be charged as an extra for any amount of money seller wants to. Hitting the revision button can be like tricking the system, some scammers do it because they want the seller to give up and cancel the order: they get the finished work AND a refund, the audacity. It’s abusing the seller at its best. Numerous revisions tend to come from a subjective standpoint that a buyer has of our work.

Our payment shouldn’t be so dependant on -subjective- customer satisfaction. If you deliver each and every item your description says you do, then the problem is the buyer’s taste or opinion about your work, not quality of the work itself.

I couldn’t agree more, yes yes yes - Art is subjective, and It doesn’t always mean the work is bad, we simply have different tastes and styles!

Well when I ment reimbursing my time, I really just ment getting paid for my hard work on this particular project.

[moonstaredits]

I mean I don’t deliver work that’s half completed… It’s just rough because the client hasn’t seen it yet. I edit the whole film, then deliver a Rough cut or V1, and then that is set by the client to ‘in revision’ and we proceed from there. I’m not sure how this has got anything to do with this order though?

I mean I don’t deliver work that’s half completed…

It’s a mistake delivering -specially finished- work that you’re not sure if buyer will like right away, almost none graphic design/editor does it because it can lead to customers not liking it. Scammers can easily not ask a revision and waiting three days and TA-DA! They cancel the order and get the refund, just like it happened. Or maybe is not an scammer, but what about the time you spent editing and sending a complete video? Try sending at least two drafts first that are not like the final product will like (you can add watermark to be sure they don’t steal them) and if buyer likes it, then proceed to send the actual finished work. It can save you from further working with a customer that doesn’t like your particular style. You can be delivering exactly what you promised in the gig and still buyer is going to reject it because it’s not what they like. Thing is, is better to know it when you haven’t spent a lot of time, which is really valuable specially if you have orders in queue.

[richardbloch]

Such a complex and crucially important thread.

This is one of the reasons I’ve started treating Fiverr as a hobby and went full-on focusing on offering my services directly.

If my 7 years of experience selling on Fiverr have taught me anything, it’s that the buyer has 100% right to cancel an order (read: not pay you for your hard work); regardless of the quality of your service, communication, end result, etc.

I’ve had buyers cancel $100+ orders with: “me no lik this sry” messages.

I swear I’m not kidding. I can tell you of even more peculiar situations.

Buyer: “Dis iz garbage rfund pliz”.

Me: “Thank you for your feedback. I’ve delivered the order meeting all of your requirements and Gig promises. Can you please let me know what do you find wrong with the order so I can revise accordingly?”

Buyer: “idiot no wast my time refnd or i report”

Fiverr Customer Support: refunds the buyer without any basis or question.

Me to Fiverr CS, paraphrasing: “What the hell?!”

Them (auto-generated message): “Sorry, we can’t force the buyer to accept work.”

Essentially, here’s the brutal truth on what’s happening.

Fiverr doesn’t care that you’ve lost time, put in the effort, or even resources into completing an order, or that you’ve completed it fully adhering to the highest quality standards - in 99% cases they’ll cancel it anyway.

Why?

Because they don’t refund Buyer’s funds to their credit cards/bank accounts. They only make refunds to Fiverr Balance. Meaning, the buyer can only spend that money elsewhere on Fiverr. Which means that no matter what, Fiverr will get their commission.

If scamming 3,4,5 Sellers before finally completing an order is what it takes - Fiverr doesn’t care. They’re here to make money, not make sure you get paid for your work. Tracking whether the cancellation request is justified would take manpower which Fiverr simply isn’t willing to pay for due to company’s overly greedy policies.

Now, the fun thing is, with Fiverr Pro and Fiverr’s new marketing approach, they’re aspiring to re-brand themselves as something more than a $5 marketplace, pushing for and encouraging higher average order prices.

Tell me, however: would you prefer doing large, complex orders on a marketplace that makes it almost 100% certain & easy for a buyer to scam yo, and steal your work without even getting to double-checked by the CS team?

Of course not. “We can’t force the buyer to accept any order” won’t cut it when you’ve put 3 - 5 days of hard work into an order.

This is why I’ve started using Fiverr exclusively for small orders, and do the larger ones solely with long-term clients. If a buyer offers $200+ order, I refuse, or ask for the order to be broken apart into smaller pieces.

I can’t risk hours of my work on a platform that provides 0 protection to the Seller. Which is natural. We all have bills to pay and can’t work for free.

This is why I’ve started offering my services for large, complex project exclusively
on my website & other platforms. I feel it’s Fiverr’s loss in a way, because they’re losing on 20% commission of >$5k monthly orders that I would perhaps otherwise handle through Fiverr. That’s a different story altogether, however.

So, that’s my 2 cents.

What happened to you can happen to anyone and has certainly happened to me more times than I can count throughout the years.

Adapt and overcome this challenge your way is the only advice I can offer at the moment.

But remember and know this without a doubt: the Buyer can permanently keep your orders in “revision” for no good reason, demand cancellation and get it without any valid explanation and reason, and act as abusive and insolent as their manners allow them to act without any repercussion or protection provided to you by Fiverr.

That’s my take derived solely from experience of being a seller on this platform for years, do what you want with it.

[moonstaredits]

Such a complex and crucially important thread.

This is one of the reasons I’ve started treating Fiverr as a hobby and went full-on focusing on offering my services directly.

If my 7 years of experience selling on Fiverr have taught me anything, it’s that the buyer has 100% right to cancel an order (read: not pay you for your hard work); regardless of the quality of your service, communication, end result, etc.

I’ve had buyers cancel $100+ orders with: “me no lik this sry” messages.

I swear I’m not kidding. I can tell you of even more peculiar situations.

Buyer: “Dis iz garbage rfund pliz”.

Me: “Thank you for your feedback. I’ve delivered the order meeting all of your requirements and Gig promises. Can you please let me know what do you find wrong with the order so I can revise accordingly?”

Buyer: “idiot no wast my time refnd or i report”

Fiverr Customer Support: refunds the buyer without any basis or question.

Me to Fiverr CS, paraphrasing: “What the hell?!”

Them (auto-generated message): “Sorry, we can’t force the buyer to accept work.”

Essentially, here’s the brutal truth on what’s happening.

Fiverr doesn’t care that you’ve lost time, put in the effort, or even resources into completing an order, or that you’ve completed it fully adhering to the highest quality standards - in 99% cases they’ll cancel it anyway.

Why?

Because they don’t refund Buyer’s funds to their credit cards/bank accounts. They only make refunds to Fiverr Balance. Meaning, the buyer can only spend that money elsewhere on Fiverr. Which means that no matter what, Fiverr will get their commission.

If scamming 3,4,5 Sellers before finally completing an order is what it takes - Fiverr doesn’t care. They’re here to make money, not make sure you get paid for your work. Tracking whether the cancellation request is justified would take manpower which Fiverr simply isn’t willing to pay for due to company’s overly greedy policies.

Now, the fun thing is, with Fiverr Pro and Fiverr’s new marketing approach, they’re aspiring to re-brand themselves as something more than a $5 marketplace, pushing for and encouraging higher average order prices.

Tell me, however: would you prefer doing large, complex orders on a marketplace that makes it almost 100% certain & easy for a buyer to scam yo, and steal your work without even getting to double-checked by the CS team?

Of course not. “We can’t force the buyer to accept any order” won’t cut it when you’ve put 3 - 5 days of hard work into an order.

This is why I’ve started using Fiverr exclusively for small orders, and do the larger ones solely with long-term clients. If a buyer offers $200+ order, I refuse, or ask for the order to be broken apart into smaller pieces.

I can’t risk hours of my work on a platform that provides 0 protection to the Seller. Which is natural. We all have bills to pay and can’t work for free.

This is why I’ve started offering my services for large, complex project exclusively

on my website & other platforms. I feel it’s Fiverr’s loss in a way, because they’re losing on 20% commission of >$5k monthly orders that I would perhaps otherwise handle through Fiverr. That’s a different story altogether, however.

So, that’s my 2 cents.

What happened to you can happen to anyone and has certainly happened to me more times than I can count throughout the years.

Adapt and overcome this challenge your way is the only advice I can offer at the moment.

But remember and know this without a doubt: the Buyer can permanently keep your orders in “revision” for no good reason, demand cancellation and get it without any valid explanation and reason, and act as abusive and insolent as their manners allow them to act without any repercussion or protection provided to you by Fiverr.

That’s my take derived solely from experience of being a seller on this platform for years, do what you want with it.

This is why I’ve started offering my services for large, complex project exclusively

on my website & other platforms.

Can you please explain me how much it costs to start a website of your own? Is it affordable? How do I start?

and act as abusive and insolent as their manners allow them to act without any repercussion or protection provided to you by Fiverr.

I’ve seen buyers get away with things that if done half as bad by a seller would lead to instant account termination. Fiverr has a decent pool of professionals and experienced amateurs as sellers, while the same can’t be said of buyers. Basically anyone with one half-working braincell can pose as a buyer, that’s it. No review or rating system for buyers. There’s no way for sellers to know how professional and polite a buyer is. Fiverr should take pride in having a professional, respectable environment for freelancers, not in having cheap services. That attracts all kind of… Peculiar people. There should be a depuration of buyers too.