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Costumers that use our work in inappropriate ways


seducea

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Hi there everyone!



So, i have a ‘hold your sign’ gig here on fiverr (here it is --> http://fiverr.com/seducea/take-pictures-holding-a-sign-to-promote-your-business-or-personal-message--3)

and iv had costumers manipulate my pictures, iv also had people using them for adult related work, even though its CLEARLY stated in my gig description that i do NOT agree to that.



Once i had a costumer buy my photos and later on removed my cloths with photoshop and he used them for adult websites.

I have seen this same person do the same thing to other fiverr sellers also.

Iv also just recently come across a guy who says he will use our work for a cat and dog books site, when infact he is using it for lesbian adult books.

Its just so bloody wrong. I mean, there is nothing wrong with the industry itself, but

If we wanted to do that kind of stuff, we would not be on fiverr and sell our work for $5, we would instead do adult work and make 1000s… Now we have chosen NOT to do adult related work and its just so low of costumers to clearly go against our wish in regards to what we can and CANNOT do.



Now… my question is…

Is our work copy righted or protected in ANY way?

If not, then What steps can i take as a seller to be protected?

What can i do when i find out that my work has been manipulated or used inappropriately?



Thanks you guys <3

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I think the work you produce is not copyrighted and it will be difficult to have restrictions over people who misuses your pictures as you didn’t mention anything about copyrights on your profile.



We will see what TRS and the others have to say about this. I’m sorry that it has happened to you.

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Thanks for reply sweet.

Well, i didn’t write anything about copy right as im not even sure if we automatically have it or not?

Not quite sure how it works…

Of course id mention that if i in fact DID have it so that i could avoid this kind of craziness 🙂



Its sad as iv seen not only my own work and the other ‘hold your sign’ girls work get into the hands of costumers that misuse it, this is very spread out. even to video testimonials etc…

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@seducea someone altering your images in the way you have described has nothing to do with copyright and everything to do with defamation of character. How you would approach this though is another matter and you would need to put appropriate wording on the gig that is broad enough to address this.

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Images on the internet are tricky, its hard to force copyright on them. As this is your modelling gig, you can only warn the customer not to use your work that defames you as a person. Its hard to handle this to be honest. I checked your gig and noticed you have worded it correctly yet some abusers are going to be using the service in manner they see fit. Sorry about that. That’s just how customers work in this world. 😦

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@ Markp

lol… if i did that id run out of characters before id even start describing the basic gig offers 😛

But lets say i go ahead and do the changes to my description.

What can be done if they STILL go ahead and break the agreement?



I thought Copyright is a legal right that creators have to copy and distribute their work, it keeps others from copying, distributing or CHANGING their work against the creators wish.


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Reply to @seducea: It is a bit creepy to know that people are also misusing video testimonials as I have just started working on it. I do however, check on the background of my buyer before I work 😉 you can simply type on google site:fiverr.com seducea thumb



to know the activities of buyers 😉 Replace ‘seducea’ to any other names. I found that this is helpful because I have noticed one of the buyers buying fetish things on Fiverr and I declined the video testimonial offer 😉

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I also check on all my buyers when possible, before i go ahead and start the order.

BUT… that doesnt always mean that they cannot lie 🙂



For example:



a buyer has bought quite a few gigs from many different fiverr sellers.

This is the website he wants us to promote --> www.VinceStead.com

It looks great and all, all i could see first time i checked it out was that its books on cats and dogs. So i had no problems working with him as it seamed genuine.



But as i went back later on and scrolled down to the very bottom i saw a surprise…

If you check it out and click on that image of me… you will come to a youtube channel were you can see quite a few video testimonials from girls on fiverr, im not sure if they know that their testimonials are used to promote lesbian adult books, or if they think, just as i did,… that its a website on books about cats and dogs.



This is just an example… and its not even amongs the real bad once… this is really not all that terrible in comparison. I still do not want my work used this way.

It would be great to know what steps i can take to get him and all others that misuse our services, to remove their inappropriate use of our work.



We should have sum kind of protection, no?

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Reply to @seducea: You cannot guarantee where buyers will post the videos. As long as they don’t modify the video or pictures, I think we can’t say anything about copyright. But for your case, where the buyer modified your picture, that is definitely wrong.



I saw where your picture is placed and it is written the buyer’s website URL etc. So in this case, I think we can’t control the ‘hidden’ purpose of the work delivered unless you are willing to do a thorough check on each buyer’s website before taking orders

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Reply to @jasveena:

Well, see that’s my point.

I have clearly stated that i do NOT want them to use my work in anything adult related.

If they still go ahead and do so, they are going against our agreement.

Its wrong.

Manipulating or even using the pics inappropriately is NOT right, when clearly stated that i do not want it to be used in such a way.



PS: i did a thorough check on the site before i went ahead with the order. That image was added later, AFTER delivery.

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okey… thanks you guys for ur thoughts and suggestions <3

I wrote to the buyer and told him i have copy rights and that him using my pictures in adult related work goes against our sales agreement as it is clearly stated in the description that i do not want my pictures used that way…

Now he has removed the picture 🙂

I think thats great!



So, even though we can not always, always control who buys and then manipulates or uses our work in ways we do not want to… it definitely helps telling them its copy righted, even if its not… lol

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There is a difference between work for hire (in which you don’t have copyright over your work, your employer does) and selling a product. You write a book? When you sell the rights to publish or you self publish and sell it to a reader, they don’t get to publish it themselves and edit your name out. Same with Fiverr: someone paying 5 bucks (or any amount of money) can’t buy the copyright to your work and can’t use it commercially UNLESS they also purchase the copyright (which is a personal contract between you and them and if they violate it by shooping your image into a nude, that’s a breech and they should and can be sued-after a cease and desist).



You’re selling a photo for private use, or limited commercial use (they don’t hold the copyright) unless you negotiate a sale of the rights with them. Unstated? They don’t have the copyright, you should be able to sue or send a letter to get the domain shut down or remove your images. Unfortunately, if you had a lawyer on retainer, you probably wouldn’t be on fiverr.

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sanitycult said: Same with Fiverr: someone paying 5 bucks (or any amount of money) can't buy the copyright to your work and can't use it...

 

Sorry, but I have to put on record that this opinion, while it sounds logical, is missing a key point.

 

Yes, the general terms of US copyright law say that the rights belong to the creator. (Or the creator's employer if that has been mutually agreed to by them.) But copyright is negotiable. It can be bought and sold by the owner and modified by contract.

 

In our situation as buyers and sellers on Fiverr we have all agreed -- to make transactions here understandable and consistent -- that we've agreed to a modification of "normal" copyright law as part of our membership at Fiverr. Read where this is clearly explained in the Fiverr Terms of Service (ToS) section on copyright status for material sold through Fiverr gigs: (full version found at: http://fiverr.com/terms_of_service

 

Ownership and Limitations (Legal Stuff, yuck...)

 

Ownership and limitations: unless clearly stated otherwise in the Gig description text, when the work is delivered, the buyer is granted all intellectual property rights, including but not limited to, copyrights for the work delivered from the seller and the seller waives any and all moral rights therein. For removal of doubt, in custom created work (such as art work, design work, report generation etc.), the delivered service shall be the exclusive property of buyer. The seller expressly agrees to assign to buyer the copyright in any delivered services that do not meet the requirements of a work-for-hire under the U.S. Copyright Act. Additionally, independent of the U.S. Copyright Act, the seller agrees that unless he indicated otherwise in the Gig description, once the order is completed the seller assigns along with it to the buyer, to the fullest extent possible under the law, all of its rights, title and interest, if any, in and to the delivered service and waives any and all moral rights in connection therewith. All transfer and assignment of intellectual property to buyer shall be subject to full payment for the Gig.

 

Note that there are multiple statements in that paragraph that CLEARLY specify that copyrights on gig sales through Fiverr transfer to the buyer. If you don't like that as a seller, you can opt out by making a clear, simple disclaimer of that Fiverr general rule as part of your gig description. You may opt to retain ALL copyrights, or sell them for an additional fee. But if you do that, you might see your sales drop. Your call.

 

If you don't like the way Fiverr has set up this copyright issue, either:

a. don't sell here, or

b. put the statement in each gig desciption

 

Otherwise, by becoming a Fiverr member you have agreed to their Terms of Service (even thought you probably did not read them) and have therefore entered into a agreement that overrides normal copyright methodology only for your work on Fiverr. No, this does not mean I don't respect laws, or that Fiverr is evil -- just that Fiverr has decided to mandate this policy to ensure smooth communications and consistent application of policies for gigs on Fiverr.

 

If anyone disagrees with this, please say how and why this summary is legally wrong. Not why you don't LIKE the Fiverr policy I'm explaining, but why I'm wrong in my reasoning about whether or not the Fiverr gig seller keeps copyright without the disclaimer specified in the ToS.

 

But don't trust me on this. And don't trust the person in the above post either. Read the TOS at Fiverr and work it out.

 

---

 

Now, as for the original question -- can a seller do anything about a buyer using their work in ways the seller does not like, such as promoting s****l content, gambling, drugs, racial insensitivity, etc. etc.

 

I don't claim to be able to answer that. The hard part for me is that if you are actually SELLING the work with the copyright, then the buyer obtains ownership and copyright, and theoretically can use it as they wish.

 

If you don't want to let them do that, then perhaps instead of SELLING the gig, you should only LICENSE the use of the material, with specific restrictions.

 

For a cheap analogy, what if you sell you old car to someone, and during the sale you tell them you don't want them to break speeding laws or use the care to rob a bank. But then after the sale they do both of those thing. What is your LEGAL grounds to undo that sale? They bought the car and any blame and punishement for their actions belong to them, despite your personal feelings about it.

 

Of course it is different with something more PERSONAL, like your photo or vidio image or your voice. That is unique, and it is east to see how you could be negatively affected by haveing your voice and/or image used in ways you are morally or legally opposed to. Stating your objection in advance as part of the gig description is certainly a good start, but what if the buyer just ignores that and buys it anyway, then puts it to bad use. Can you rescind (cancel after the fact) the sale based on that kind of "violation"? Wouldn't that also mean that the buyer should get their money back, meaning anoteher cancellation for you as a seller?

 

I HATE this question, because there are just too many variables. (Unlike the copyright transfer thing, in which the Fiverr policy is unusual but perfectly clear.)

 

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sanitycult said: You're selling a photo for private use, or limited commercial use (they don't hold the copyright) unless you negotiate a sale of the rights with them. Unstated? They don't have the copyright, you should be able to sue or send a letter to get the domain shut down or remove your images. Unfortunately, if you had a lawyer on retainer, you probably wouldn't be on fiverr.

 

Sorry, just another re-hashing of this point. I think that this opinion, while well-meaning, is factually wrong. Because the premise stated is different, and in fact opposite of what is standard as part of Fiverr ToS. It assumes thar the seller is retaining copyrights, but at Fiverr, those go to the buyer as part of each gig sale unless the seller clearly and specifically states otherwise in advance.

 

There seems to me to be a basic confusion about the distinction between:

 

a. a sale of an image, etc. with transfer of copyright ("normal" on Fiverr gigs), and buyer has sole copy and all rights

 

b. a sale of a physical object or digital file, etc. which the seller will also be re-selling to others. According to Fiverr ToS, each Fiverr gets "ownership" unless the seller states otherwise in advance

 

c. a transaction which might be better termed a "license" to use the work with certain restrictions, while the creator/owner retains copyright

 

Even though the term "selling" is applied conversationally to almost all gigs at Fiverr, there is a factual legal difference between "Selling" and "Licensing"

 

Another way to twist it. If you go to a store to "buy" a painting to put in your house, you can certainly do that. Buying the physical object is one thing, but just because you bought that copy does not mean that you own the right to the image on the painting to re-sell in quantity or on posters, postcards, etc. The artist probably just allowed sales of copies of the image but retained the copyright on the original image.

 

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This website explains artistic works & copyright laws, the answers pertaining to various countries, since there is no one set of laws which covers the internet.

Copyright Law & Art:

http://www.hermanstudios.com/copyright.html



In the past, I’ve licensed some of my art works to someone who then created needlework patterns & kits. A few times I’ve also allowed pieces of my art to be used pro bono as part of educational material that was not being resold but used within a single school system. I always signed a legal agreement, retaining copyrights to my work. Unfortunately, on the internet, a large percent of people ignore legalities and just copy/paste or otherwise misuse other’s material without a second thought, and there really is little recourse. Occasionally I’ve found some of my work being used by sites that had stolen it. About half the time they did take it down after I sent them a “cease and desist” email.



Probably the best you can do is clearly state what you consider unacceptable uses of your work, place small watermarks on it so you can track who has used your work in these unacceptable ways then call them out on it. Send “cease & desist” kinds of mailings, or whatever. And then refuse any future orders from them.



Good luck~

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Sounds like the original poster and perhaps others could use a little help from Legal Shield. If you would like more information please see my website, fragglesrock or send me a message via fiverr.

Sheriff’s Note: Outside links are not allowed. Contacting outside of Fiverr and providing personal contact information break the Terms of Service.

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  • 2 weeks later...

lov u guys!!! Thank u so so much for all this info!



Im being extremely careful about my orders now. Iv also stated in the description the details and tell them again after delivery.



Thanks again for all the info, has been very helpful!



Ps: I did read fiverrs ToS, of-course. But guess wat… i skipped the last bit as soon as i saw that it was legal stuff… lol. silly me… now i see why its very important to always pay attention and read stuff like that properly 🙂



thanks again everyone xx

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