Et tu, Brute? CS, Chargebacks, Scammers, and the Greatest betrayals on Fiverr

[rainny_writer]

On March 15 (the Ides of March), 44 BCE, Roman dictator Julius Caesar was attacked by a group of senators, including Marcus Junius Brutus, Caesar’s friend and protégé. Caesar initially resisted his attackers, but when he saw Brutus, he supposedly spoke those words and resigned himself to his fate. - Wikipedia

Those words are loosely translated, in English, as “and you, Brutus?”, “even you, Brutus?” or “you too, Brutus?” In the Greek context, this can be translated as “You too, child?”, “You too, young man?” or “You too, my child?” The exact words of Julius Caesar might remain largely unknown, but given the context, the statement made much sense.

Now, why are we here?

Here on Fiverr, we’ve all faced many problems (betrayals, if you may). Betrayals from those we trusted, rendered a service to, and then lost out to. Some of these betrayals are easily be blamed on Fiverr CS - to be fair, they’ve hardly been able to prove anyone wrong (except in a few rare cases, anyway). However, a deeper consideration has me placing most of the blame at the feet of the individuals (buyers and sellers) who transact on Fiverr.

A buyer places an order, gets the delivery, requests revisions, is satisfied, claims a never ending lack of satisfaction, requests cancellation or bad review and disappears after that. Fiverr CS is notified; “we take our buyers review seriously,” they say.

A buyer places an order, leaves a 5-star rating (or not), disappears, files a chargeback days, weeks, or months later. Fiverr CS is contacted, “we can’t fight a chargeback,” comes the response.

A buyer places an order, the seller marks it as delivered, is able to sway the unknowing buyer who is clueless as to how the system works that he’ll deliver, 14 days after the money is cleared. Fiverr CS is contacted, “we wish you and the seller come to a reasonable conclusion, we cannot refund an accepted order.”

In all of those scenarios, Fiverr CS might have been largely inept, but the blame falls as much at the feet of the individuals involved as it does Customer Support. Betrayal is only possible when there is trust. And business is impossible without trust. Paying for a service before seeing the outcome requires trust; accepting to do a job before receiving the funds requires trust; taking an objective decision even when our money might be involved requires trust. Broken trust only leads to a breakdown of any possible business relationship.

Recently, I began to enjoy my biggest case of betrayal, and then today came around. The day when one of the biggest ever cases of betrayal took place. And I thought to myself, maybe betrayal is just a part of life; maybe the cases of betrayal on Fiverr is just an evidence that it is actually a microcosm of what goes on in real life; maybe I’m yet to face my biggest betrayal. Either way, one thing is sure, we can either sit down and resign to our fate as Julius Caeser had done, or we could find the best remedy to the situation and/or learn from it. With the betrayals sure to continue, on and off Fiverr, we’d better learn how to deal with them.

So, next time you think, “et tu, brute?” Remember, you were never the first, and you sure won’t be the last. Let the significance of today not be lost on you.

Meanwhile, I’d love to hear of your biggest betrayals on Fiverr, how you handled them, and the lessons you learned from them.

[emmaki]

You seem a bit irate 😉

FWIW, the feedback removal policy has changed.

[rainny_writer]

You seem a bit irate 😉

FWIW, the feedback removal policy has changed.

@emmaki Did you read my entire post? I don’t see what’s irate about it…

Note that the post was not a comment about my particular situation (although that influenced it), neither was it wasn’t a rant (if it was it’d be in the ranting pot). It’s a generalistic comment about life in general and is meant to stir conversation, not make a complaint… It even goes some way to exonerate CS from certain problems faced on the platform. So, do well to read the entire post.

[emmaki]

@emmaki Did you read my entire post? I don’t see what’s irate about it…

Note that the post was not a comment about my particular situation (although that influenced it), neither was it wasn’t a rant (if it was it’d be in the ranting pot). It’s a generalistic comment about life in general and is meant to stir conversation, not make a complaint… It even goes some way to exonerate CS from certain problems faced on the platform. So, do well to read the entire post.

Well, comparing an assassination by one’s most trusted political friends and co-conspirators with the usual medley of Fiverr issues seems a bit irate to me, especially with the whole “stabbed in the back” insinuations.

Anyway, not to worry, most of us bend over backwards and sideways to accommodate only to get furiously rogered by some dreadful specimen anyway. It is, thankfully rare: but picture this (my imgur review is up, by the way–this is the cause of this post). While it used to be that a buyer threatening a bad review to get what they want (typically freebies and/or their money back would result in feedback removal, now it doesn’t.

This is because according to a lead CS rep that I spent much of this afternoon talking to, bad behavior like this will be forwarded to Trust and Safety who will do something that we will never know about due to privacy. Now, if the buyer goes ahead and issues that awful, misleading review, nothing can be done about it, unless it violates the Feedback Policy.

What is the feedback policy you ask?

There isn’t one. I was given some examples of what might constitute the policy by this CS rep, who ultimately admitted that there was no Feedback Policy currently written for users or even CS themselves. The TOS itself with regard to buyer conduct during reviews (this is not the feedback policy, btw–don’t ask, I don’t know either) has a strong focus on seller misconduct with little in the way for buyer conduct. Go, check: the bulk of bad buyer behavior falls under cancellations.

It explains a lot, it really does. As for arseholes being arseholes, well.

You are irate, though–it’s the antagonism of helplessness.

[miiila]

On March 15 (the Ides of March), 44 BCE, Roman dictator Julius Caesar was attacked by a group of senators, including Marcus Junius Brutus, Caesar’s friend and protégé. Caesar initially resisted his attackers, but when he saw Brutus, he supposedly spoke those words and resigned himself to his fate. - Wikipedia

Those words are loosely translated, in English, as “and you, Brutus?”, “even you, Brutus?” or “you too, Brutus?” In the Greek context, this can be translated as “You too, child?”, “You too, young man?” or “You too, my child?” The exact words of Julius Caesar might remain largely unknown, but given the context, the statement made much sense.

Now, why are we here?

Here on Fiverr, we’ve all faced many problems (betrayals, if you may). Betrayals from those we trusted, rendered a service to, and then lost out to. Some of these betrayals are easily be blamed on Fiverr CS - to be fair, they’ve hardly been able to prove anyone wrong (except in a few rare cases, anyway). However, a deeper consideration has me placing most of the blame at the feet of the individuals (buyers and sellers) who transact on Fiverr.

A buyer places an order, gets the delivery, requests revisions, is satisfied, claims a never ending lack of satisfaction, requests cancellation or bad review and disappears after that. Fiverr CS is notified; “we take our buyers review seriously,” they say.

A buyer places an order, leaves a 5-star rating (or not), disappears, files a chargeback days, weeks, or months later. Fiverr CS is contacted, “we can’t fight a chargeback,” comes the response.

A buyer places an order, the seller marks it as delivered, is able to sway the unknowing buyer who is clueless as to how the system works that he’ll deliver, 14 days after the money is cleared. Fiverr CS is contacted, “we wish you and the seller come to a reasonable conclusion, we cannot refund an accepted order.”

In all of those scenarios, Fiverr CS might have been largely inept, but the blame falls as much at the feet of the individuals involved as it does Customer Support. Betrayal is only possible when there is trust. And business is impossible without trust. Paying for a service before seeing the outcome requires trust; accepting to do a job before receiving the funds requires trust; taking an objective decision even when our money might be involved requires trust. Broken trust only leads to a breakdown of any possible business relationship.

Recently, I began to enjoy my biggest case of betrayal, and then today came around. The day when one of the biggest ever cases of betrayal took place. And I thought to myself, maybe betrayal is just a part of life; maybe the cases of betrayal on Fiverr is just an evidence that it is actually a microcosm of what goes on in real life; maybe I’m yet to face my biggest betrayal. Either way, one thing is sure, we can either sit down and resign to our fate as Julius Caeser had done, or we could find the best remedy to the situation and/or learn from it. With the betrayals sure to continue, on and off Fiverr, we’d better learn how to deal with them.

So, next time you think, “et tu, brute?” Remember, you were never the first, and you sure won’t be the last. Let the significance of today not be lost on you.

Meanwhile, I’d love to hear of your biggest betrayals on Fiverr, how you handled them, and the lessons you learned from them.

maybe betrayal is just a part of life;

Yes.

maybe I’m yet to face my biggest betrayal.

Probably.

With the betrayals sure to continue, on and off Fiverr, we’d better learn how to deal with them.

Yes.

So, next time you think, “et tu, brute?” Remember, you were never the first, and you sure won’t be the last. Let the significance of today not be lost on you.

Don´t know, there have to be some first and last people for some kinds of betrayal either way, but generally, yes. And no worries, I won´t.

Meanwhile, I’d love to hear of your biggest betrayals on Fiverr, how you handled them, and the lessons you learned from them.

The biggest betrayals are always the personal ones, aren´t they, the thing wasn´t that someone betrayed Cesar, but that the someone was Brutus. I learn from them, things about fellow humans and about myself, and adapt my ways, or not, depending.

I don´t think Cesar would have said ‘et tu, …’, had it been someone comparable to a (chargeback) scammer or CS rep or even fiverr CEO; only Brutus, his friend and protégé qualified for an ‘et tu’ level of betrayal.

Either way, I enjoyed your post, then I was one of the weird people in class who liked Latin and reading ‘De Bello Gallico’, a nice relief from the usual moans 😉

[rainny_writer]

Well, comparing an assassination by one’s most trusted political friends and co-conspirators with the usual medley of Fiverr issues seems a bit irate to me, especially with the whole “stabbed in the back” insinuations.

Anyway, not to worry, most of us bend over backwards and sideways to accommodate only to get furiously rogered by some dreadful specimen anyway. It is, thankfully rare: but picture this (my imgur review is up, by the way–this is the cause of this post). While it used to be that a buyer threatening a bad review to get what they want (typically freebies and/or their money back would result in feedback removal, now it doesn’t.

This is because according to a lead CS rep that I spent much of this afternoon talking to, bad behavior like this will be forwarded to Trust and Safety who will do something that we will never know about due to privacy. Now, if the buyer goes ahead and issues that awful, misleading review, nothing can be done about it, unless it violates the Feedback Policy.

What is the feedback policy you ask?

There isn’t one. I was given some examples of what might constitute the policy by this CS rep, who ultimately admitted that there was no Feedback Policy currently written for users or even CS themselves. The TOS itself with regard to buyer conduct during reviews (this is not the feedback policy, btw–don’t ask, I don’t know either) has a strong focus on seller misconduct with little in the way for buyer conduct. Go, check: the bulk of bad buyer behavior falls under cancellations.

It explains a lot, it really does. As for arseholes being arseholes, well.

You are irate, though–it’s the antagonism of helplessness.

Well, comparing an assassination by one’s most trusted political friends and co-conspirators with the usual medley of Fiverr issues seems a bit irate to me, especially with the whole “stabbed in the back” insinuations.

It probably is too big an analogy, but it was meant to pass a message about life in general, not just a (limited) situation on Fiverr.

You are irate, though–it’s the antagonism of helplessness.

I just might be a tad irate, but then again…

[rainny_writer]

maybe betrayal is just a part of life;

Yes.

maybe I’m yet to face my biggest betrayal.

Probably.

With the betrayals sure to continue, on and off Fiverr, we’d better learn how to deal with them.

Yes.

So, next time you think, “et tu, brute?” Remember, you were never the first, and you sure won’t be the last. Let the significance of today not be lost on you.

Don´t know, there have to be some first and last people for some kinds of betrayal either way, but generally, yes. And no worries, I won´t.

Meanwhile, I’d love to hear of your biggest betrayals on Fiverr, how you handled them, and the lessons you learned from them.

The biggest betrayals are always the personal ones, aren´t they, the thing wasn´t that someone betrayed Cesar, but that the someone was Brutus. I learn from them, things about fellow humans and about myself, and adapt my ways, or not, depending.

I don´t think Cesar would have said ‘et tu, …’, had it been someone comparable to a (chargeback) scammer or CS rep or even fiverr CEO; only Brutus, his friend and protégé qualified for an ‘et tu’ level of betrayal.

Either way, I enjoyed your post, then I was one of the weird people in class who liked Latin and reading ‘De Bello Gallico’, a nice relief from the usual moans 😉

I really enjoyed your stage by stage analysis of the post.

Personally, I didn’t do too much of latin in school, but I’ve always been a voracious reader, more so when it comes to history. Besides the fun of it, it teaches a lot of lessons. It also keeps me well informed of my environment and life in general.

Either way, I’m glad you did enjoy it…

[emmaki]

I really enjoyed your stage by stage analysis of the post.

Personally, I didn’t do too much of latin in school, but I’ve always been a voracious reader, more so when it comes to history. Besides the fun of it, it teaches a lot of lessons. It also keeps me well informed of my environment and life in general.

Either way, I’m glad you did enjoy it…

I am trying to forget today with YT binges, but since y’all like Roman stuff, you might find this channel interesting. It’s mainly politics and military stuff, which sounds really dry, but he does a great job of bringing it to life. I like the blow-by-blow battles myself, and his videos on Caeser in Gaul and Britain are great, start there!

YouTube

Historia Civilis

Rome Freak.

Onwards and upwards re: shit buyers. Tomorrow’s another day…

[rainny_writer]

I am trying to forget today with YT binges, but since y’all like Roman stuff, you might find this channel interesting. It’s mainly politics and military stuff, which sounds really dry, but he does a great job of bringing it to life. I like the blow-by-blow battles myself, and his videos on Caeser in Gaul and Britain are great, start there!

YouTube

Historia Civilis

Rome Freak.

Onwards and upwards re: shit buyers. Tomorrow’s another day…

Now that does seem interesting, but it’s quite bulky (lazy me). I’ll tell you my thoughts once I’m done going through it all… I hope it’s as fun as it seems

[djgodknows]

Sorry I am late 2 da partee

[rainny_writer]

Sorry I am late 2 da partee

1lh20g.jpg500×757 118 KB

Feel free to join da convo, DJ…

[cyaxrex]

With regard to your original post, learning from betrayal isn’t actually possible. I mean poor Julius didn’t exactly make a speedy recovery and tell himself never to trust Brutus again.

That said, I feel your pain. As well as discovering that a buyer who previously used a chargeback to get work for free from me is still active on Fiverr, I’ve had my messages flagged as inappropriate when responding civilly to an irate potential buyer, and I’ve resigned myself to never seeing the end of my falling orders completed ratio due to there being no means to get rid of buyers who try and take advantage by ordering services I simply don’t provide.

This isn’t a question of trust or betrayal. This is a case of Fiverr either fully automating CS to save $$$'s in wages or simply being out to get sellers who won’t attempt to appease even the most nefarious buyers.

Best just batten the hatches and wait until Fiverr learns that this whole modus operandi is actually going to hurt them in the long-term.

[rainny_writer]

With regard to your original post, learning from betrayal isn’t actually possible. I mean poor Julius didn’t exactly make a speedy recovery and tell himself never to trust Brutus again.

That said, I feel your pain. As well as discovering that a buyer who previously used a chargeback to get work for free from me is still active on Fiverr, I’ve had my messages flagged as inappropriate when responding civilly to an irate potential buyer, and I’ve resigned myself to never seeing the end of my falling orders completed ratio due to there being no means to get rid of buyers who try and take advantage by ordering services I simply don’t provide.

This isn’t a question of trust or betrayal. This is a case of Fiverr either fully automating CS to save $$$'s in wages or simply being out to get sellers who won’t attempt to appease even the most nefarious buyers.

Best just batten the hatches and wait until Fiverr learns that this whole modus operandi is actually going to hurt them in the long-term.

learning from betrayal isn’t actually possible.

I might differ with you here. I mean, there are different levels of betrayal - some might lead to death, some might not. Betrayal doesn’t always end in death and there could be something to learn from it(at least, for future issues). So, is this as big an issue as Julius faced? NO! But, it is still an issue…

This isn’t a question of trust or betrayal. This is a case of Fiverr either fully automating CS to save $$$'s in wages or simply being out to get sellers who won’t attempt to appease even the most nefarious buyers.

This I am gradually coming to accept. There might be actual CS staff, but it seems their jobs are limited to special cases. My little knowledge of Java tells me I can combine CASE and IF statements to provide something similar to an automated response, triggered by the category of complaint.

Anyway, whatever the case, for as long as the level of trust is not as huge as that of Julius, and the betrayal is certainly not as bad…there is something to learn

[silkroute]

learning from betrayal isn’t actually possible.

I might differ with you here. I mean, there are different levels of betrayal - some might lead to death, some might not. Betrayal doesn’t always end in death and there could be something to learn from it(at least, for future issues). So, is this as big an issue as Julius faced? NO! But, it is still an issue…

This isn’t a question of trust or betrayal. This is a case of Fiverr either fully automating CS to save $$$'s in wages or simply being out to get sellers who won’t attempt to appease even the most nefarious buyers.

This I am gradually coming to accept. There might be actual CS staff, but it seems their jobs are limited to special cases. My little knowledge of Java tells me I can combine CASE and IF statements to provide something similar to an automated response, triggered by the category of complaint.

Anyway, whatever the case, for as long as the level of trust is not as huge as that of Julius, and the betrayal is certainly not as bad…there is something to learn

@rainny_writer :

Is this still about Fiverr or has it delved into the realm of high philosophy?

[tkraemer81]

@rainny_writer :

Is this still about Fiverr or has it delved into the realm of high philosophy?

I just came here to talk about my cat 🐱

[emmaki]

I did contact CS who said this was not true (and they are looking into it). But this seems like a good place to drop this, no?

[writer99025]

The tension is killing me.

[gina_riley2]

I don't know man, I just hope an OBC becomes the next UP CM. Anyway, flag this post and delete it.

Anyway, flag this post and delete it.

Writer -

I’m adding you to the whiteboard animation along with DJ that I’m getting saddu to do for me.

The two of you are just 😫 me.

[writer99025]

Anyway, flag this post and delete it.

Writer -

I’m adding you to the whiteboard animation along with DJ that I’m getting saddu to do for me.

The two of you are just 😫 me.

LOL…I’ve been like this since 11th March.

[rainny_writer]

@rainny_writer :

Is this still about Fiverr or has it delved into the realm of high philosophy?

This is very well a combination of everything - philosophy, life, Fiverr…

[saddu_writer]

Anyway, flag this post and delete it.

Writer -

I’m adding you to the whiteboard animation along with DJ that I’m getting saddu to do for me.

The two of you are just 😫 me.

I am just a tag away… Any time. These two needs to be punished. :rolling_eyes:

[emmaki]

will other people be able to see this exciting whiteboard video, or is it a private project?

[saddu_writer]

will other people be able to see this exciting whiteboard video, or is it a private project?

We will release it for everyone… I hope you will enjoy @writer99025 part. 😏

[emmaki]

We will release it for everyone… I hope you will enjoy @writer99025 part. 😏

I look forward to it!

[psychicbunny]

This is why I love Fiverr