How can sellers protect themselves?

[psychicnicole]

I had many incidents and Fiverr took only the side of the buyers! Charge back, wanting refund after a big order delivered, and so on…
How come Fiverr can not protect its sellers from Fraudulent buyers. How come having charge backs after weeks from delivery? I thought Fiver take that commission from sellers so to do the job and cover those things.

[misscrystal]

This gets asked once a week on average.
Any internet business that takes credit cards and or Paypal has this problem and it is just the cost of doing business.

Buyers would not be safe using credit cards or Paypal if they knew they had no way to get a refund if something went wrong with a sale.

Fiver also loses the money it makes when this happens to they too have a loss. I’m used to this as I am not new to the business world and just accept it.

[misscrystal]

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I thought you were talking about Paypal chargebacks?

[Guest offlinehelpers]

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They lose the money if they have to refund a buyer, not they lose money all the time.

[misscrystal]

They lose the money if they have to refund a buyer, not they lose money all the time.

We in our category do not have more chargebacks than other categories. I get about one every other month and I do a big business here.

[Guest offlinehelpers]

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3% isn’t bad really - the other 97% makes up for it I’m sure!

[misscrystal]

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I just had four the same buyer got from 1st of November. It happens to everyone here at some time.

[emmaki]

Fiverr doesn’t particularly respect anyone it works with. We’re all just more grist to its ever expanding mill. That’s not really the important thing here, as this is just business and it’s better to think of it as a marketing platform that does a lot of that dullass work so we don’t have to. That’s where I place my value with the 20%.

The rest can be hit and miss, but I’ve always found CS to be helpful when approached. Fiverr will help with nasty cases, of course, but for the more minor day to day irritants, you’re encouraged to work on your own and/or deal with it.

I have a whole bunch of strategies ( = “I make it up as I go along”) but it’s really a case of spotting a bad apple then giving them one chance. How they behave with that determines every other interaction with them until proven otherwise. Make sense?

Anyway, if it’s not important nor a main source of income or dependence for you, it seems strange that you would start a post about it. If the disrespects pisses you off that much, I feel a good internet flounce is in order.

Final recommendation: cast a hex.

[emmaki]

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The hex thing was a joke 🙂 It’s a big thing for another poster who… anyway, that will get modded in a flash.

Yeah, just cancel. Bad juju buyers aren’t worth a thing.

[misscrystal]

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Yes it does if you do it much.

[emmaki]

All my cancellations are seller fault–I can handle pretty much everything you throw at me. Due to my pricing I also get a lot of pre-sales questions where it’s easy to throw people out/push them to the “I hate Emma” camp.

I’m not too sure if it affects gig standings and results. I don’t think they do, but plenty of others will tell you that they do. Fiverr won’t reveal the Magic Sauce ™ behind how it all works, so… it’s what you want to believe at the end of the day I guess.

[misscrystal]

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it is never a good idea to disrespect a Healer lol

I would tell you a story about my recent experience in that regard but it would be removed quickly.

[misscrystal]

Yes everyone says where is emmaki? I know you have other things on your mind lately.

[silkroute]

This gets asked once a week on average.

Any internet business that takes credit cards and or Paypal has this problem and it is just the cost of doing business.

Buyers would not be safe using credit cards or Paypal if they knew they had no way to get a refund if something went wrong with a sale.

Fiver also loses the money it makes when this happens to they too have a loss. I’m used to this as I am not new to the business world and just accept it.

This gets asked once a week on average.Any internet business that takes credit cards and or Paypal has this problem and it is just the cost of doing business.

I agree with the above sentiment.

Weighing the pros and cons, giving precedence to buyer protection is more essential for the survival of the economic model we live in. We are ourselves ‘buyers’ when we buy stuff from ecommerce retail sites so many times, and we are beneficiaries of the same CC protection laws.

But, I disagree with the implication that this makes :

Fiver also loses the money it makes when this happens to they too have a loss.

It tries to draw equivalence between the loss of the seller and loss of Fiverr from the same chargeback, but doesn’t factor in the nuance that the supposed loss which Fiverr incurs is a perceived loss of potential revenue, unlike the tangible loss which the seller faces which is their time and efforts spent doing the work.

“we’re both equal losers” is clearly not fitting here.

The former is an individual seller who has lost time and efforts after they had their work stolen for free, another is a corporation which didn’t make commission it would have otherwise made on the sale, had there been no chargeback.

One understands why it happens and that it is inevitable, but there isn’t enough space in my imagination to allow a multi-million dollar middleman to squeeze in and claim equal victimhood with an individual because the middleman didn’t make commission after the individual had his work stolen.

It’s a “let them eat cake” type of a statement. People are willing to digest the hard reality of chargebacks without the cliches. The cliches just add in’salt’ to injury. (see what I did there)

[emmaki]

Both sides are as important as the other. The balance is a little skewered though: a poor quality buyer is still bringing money into the system, whereas a shitty untalented hack who can do everything and nothing is incredibly damaging to the system.

Combined with the internet being a “new” way to buy shit, it’s understandable that companies want to build trust through refund guarantees (whether explicitly or hiding behind bigger boys).

The real issue here–and one that Fiverr does seem to be taking steps to fix–is getting rid of shit sellers. It’s a sisyphean task to be sure, which is why the blanket and lazy stuff is there.

Ultimately, the onus is on us as individual merchants to protect ourself in an imperfect system. One very good way is to put your prices up to kick the tire kickers out–but if you don’t have enough reviews blah blah blah it’s difficult.

I just sucked it up for 18 months, but to be honest, I only had one bad buyer in all that time. Since I’ve become TRS, that’s changed. That’s another story though. Point is just tell the bad buyers to go rabbit themselves. Being kind on the internet is a fool’s errand.

[silkroute]

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One very good way is to put your prices up to kick the tire kickers out

This only adds an entry barrier, it doesn’t add an exit barrier. Someone who buys an expensive package can still do a smooth exit.

Most people who have faced chargebacks, going by the sample set of people who have made their woes known on the forum, is that the chargebacks were pulled on the expensive packages, not the cheaper ones.

[emmaki]

Oh, and I do agree that their chargeback excuse is incredibly feeble for all the reasons @silkroute outlined. But again, it’s the blanket thing. They do make their famous “exceptions” (which any longtime reader of the forum and numerous posts featuring screenshots etc will realize is a canned response).

I’m sure I read elswhere on the forum/the wide web that the main reason for all this was international law be complicated. That made sense to me. But yeah, feeble. So be in charge and kick a baddie out ASAP.

[emmaki]

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TBH that sounds like a chargeback to me which is out of Fiverr’s hands. If their profile page doesn’t exist anymore… then the customer was being a scammy jammy king canute.

I’m really going now, but Fiverr’s own TOS don’t allow for refunds on what you’ve just said. She was just being a thieving mardy old cow. If she’s reading this, I just want to tell her “moo”.

[silkroute]

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All of payment processing happens through Fiverr’s paypal account. If Fiverr simply treats the order page as an invoice and a chargeback as an unpaid invoice, they can simply file a counter-dispute if the buyer files a dispute with PayPal after receiving their delivery. As per PayPal rules, In case of digital purchases, if the buyer has left a comment acknowledging receipt of the digital download, (like a Fiverr review), that alone is enough to win a Paypal dispute.

I think, this is a reasonable amount of effort for a seller to expect in exchange for the 20% fee we pay. Even if Fiverr wins only 70% of the disputes, that’s still 70% less angry sellers.

[mjakkerman]

All of payment processing happens through Fiverr’s paypal account. If Fiverr simply treats the order page as an invoice and a chargeback as an unpaid invoice, they can simply file a counter-dispute if the buyer files a dispute with PayPal after receiving their delivery. As per PayPal rules, In case of digital purchases, if the buyer has left a comment acknowledging receipt of the digital download, (like a Fiverr review), that alone is enough to win a Paypal dispute.

I think, this is a reasonable amount of effort for a seller to expect in exchange for the 20% fee we pay. Even if Fiverr wins only 70% of the disputes, that’s still 70% less angry sellers.

As per PayPal rules, In case of digital purchases, if the buyer has left a comment acknowledging receipt of the digital download, (like a Fiverr review), that alone is enough to win a Paypal dispute.

Fiverr could even make a box stating that when the delivered file is downloaded, receipt is acknowledged, unless the buyer makes a reclamation with Fiverr within 14 days. In that way, both buyers and sellers have a reasonable amount of protection.

[silkroute]

As per PayPal rules, In case of digital purchases, if the buyer has left a comment acknowledging receipt of the digital download, (like a Fiverr review), that alone is enough to win a Paypal dispute.

Fiverr could even make a box stating that when the delivered file is downloaded, receipt is acknowledged, unless the buyer makes a reclamation with Fiverr within 14 days. In that way, both buyers and sellers have a reasonable amount of protection.

Good stuff 🙂

I’d like to reiterate that even with the less-than-deal settings, Fiverr is a good place because more than 97% of buyers are actually very nice. It’s those mischievous 3% who end up getting a mention in the hall of shame on the forum, because negative experiences register higher on an emotional level. If sellers started writing stories about the cool buyers that they got the privilege to work with, one can compile a mighty fat ebook out of it.

[chipperwood]

If you look down this thread, Silkroute had a response to Misscrystal that echoes my sentiment – as Fiverr takes 20% of my earnings, they should represent me in any payment dispute. We must constantly monitor our gigs’ cancellation column, found under ‘Revenues.’ We sellers are always aware of our cancelled orders, but I’ve noticed that Fiverr will never notify you about a PayPal action that reverted funds to a buyer.

I have to admit that Fiverr can’t control PayPal policy, but since 1213, I have found dozens of jobs where money was refunded to the client, and not one of them was initiated by the client (buyer). Fiverr says they have no control over transactions that are arbitrarily canceled by PayPal, and Pay Pal usually says it was an “account verification anomaly.”

In any case, I have heard Fiverr’s “if you don’t make money, we don’t” before. It’s a flaccid excuse to not ensure that sellers get paid, and it’s a greedy response that makes Fiverr sound like the victim. You may lose $30 for a job, but Fiverr will not miss their $6 comission.

[misscrystal]

If you look down this thread, Silkroute had a response to Misscrystal that echoes my sentiment – as Fiverr takes 20% of my earnings, they should represent me in any payment dispute. We must constantly monitor our gigs’ cancellation column, found under ‘Revenues.’ We sellers are always aware of our cancelled orders, but I’ve noticed that Fiverr will never notify you about a PayPal action that reverted funds to a buyer.

I have to admit that Fiverr can’t control PayPal policy, but since 1213, I have found dozens of jobs where money was refunded to the client, and not one of them was initiated by the client (buyer). Fiverr says they have no control over transactions that are arbitrarily canceled by PayPal, and Pay Pal usually says it was an “account verification anomaly.”

In any case, I have heard Fiverr’s “if you don’t make money, we don’t” before. It’s a flaccid excuse to not ensure that sellers get paid, and it’s a greedy response that makes Fiverr sound like the victim. You may lose $30 for a job, but Fiverr will not miss their $6 comission.

Fiverr will never notify you about a PayPal action that reverted funds to a buyer.

I get notices about it sent as an email.

[misscrystal]

If you look down this thread, Silkroute had a response to Misscrystal that echoes my sentiment – as Fiverr takes 20% of my earnings, they should represent me in any payment dispute. We must constantly monitor our gigs’ cancellation column, found under ‘Revenues.’ We sellers are always aware of our cancelled orders, but I’ve noticed that Fiverr will never notify you about a PayPal action that reverted funds to a buyer.

I have to admit that Fiverr can’t control PayPal policy, but since 1213, I have found dozens of jobs where money was refunded to the client, and not one of them was initiated by the client (buyer). Fiverr says they have no control over transactions that are arbitrarily canceled by PayPal, and Pay Pal usually says it was an “account verification anomaly.”

In any case, I have heard Fiverr’s “if you don’t make money, we don’t” before. It’s a flaccid excuse to not ensure that sellers get paid, and it’s a greedy response that makes Fiverr sound like the victim. You may lose $30 for a job, but Fiverr will not miss their $6 comission.

You may lose $30 for a job, but Fiverr will not miss their $6 comission.

They miss it. They get a lot more chargebacks than individual sellers get, in fact, they get every single one of them.

[mjakkerman]

You may lose $30 for a job, but Fiverr will not miss their $6 comission.

They miss it. They get a lot more chargebacks than individual sellers get, in fact, they get every single one of them.

Do you mean that they absorb some of the chargebacks for us (not just the ones where the buyers fled the scene)?