If you advertise it for $5 . . . you must sell it for $5!

[ginnymenges]

I have seen many sellers complain that a buyer did not contact them to discuss the price before placing the order. I want to help clear this up.



Fiverr has two headquarters, one being in Washington DC in the US. This means that Fiverr is subject to the US Consumer Protection Act.



This is called Fiverr, not Tene’rr or Twentyrr. I realize the $5 price is a default, however it does create a “truth in advertising” price issue if you don’t sell your advertised service for the $5 (you make extra with your addons). Here is an example. “I will create a responsive website for $5” This is the headline, but it is also the advertised service AND price. You might state in your description that you want a buyer to contact you to discuss the real price. This statement in your description is not enforceable under US law because you have already advertised that you will create a responsive website for $5. This means that under the US Consumer Protection ACT you MUST sell ANY responsive website for $5. A better headline would have been, “I will create a 3-page website for $5” The “disclaimer” you put in your description can’t be used to reverse your advertised header. To advertise one thing in your header and then change that in your description is called “Bait and Switch” under US law and is highly illegal.



I would also like to point out that when there is a misunderstanding about the meaning of the advertised service, US courts use the “reasonable person test” and almost always side with the consumer since the seller created the advertisement.



I understand that the $5 price in the header is set by default because this is called Fiverr. The best course of action is to put something in your header that you will do for five dollars so you are following the law. The reason Fiverr will not do anything about buyers purchasing gigs for $5 that you have stated in your description will cost more is simply that Fiverr understands US law and know that by advertising the $5 price, you are bound to provide. If you choose to make your header sound better to attract more buyers, just understand you will occasionally have to provide the service for only $5 or put your rating in jeopardy with cancellations.



To learn more about following the US Consumer Protection ACT go to http://www.business.ftc.gov/advertising-and-marketing/online-advertising-and-marketing

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http://www.business.ftc.gov/advertising-and-marketing/online-advertising-and-marketing/sites/all/themes/ftcbusinesscenter/images/logo-ftcseal.jpg

BCP Business Center

http://www.business.ftc.gov

PS. If you don't like these facts, don't yell at me on this forum. Yell at the US Congress. They created these laws, not me.

[emasonwrites]

I just have to ditto what kjblynx said. Most of us who are concerned about buyers not contacting us beforehand isn’t so that we can bait and switch on them, it’s so that we can make sure we’re capable of doing what they need us to do. The “reasonable person test” would also have to take into account the character limits in the gig descriptions–almost all of my descriptions have had to be heavily edited so that they fit inside those restrictions. I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect me to spend my entire gig description listing things that I can’t or won’t do.

Now, if a seller is offering a gig that says they will build a three-page responsive website, hopefully the description offers more clarification about what constitutes three pages and how in depth the design is, etc. If in the description it says something like “THIS IS NOT A $5 GIG,” or “three pages costs $15,” that is false advertising and also not something that Fiverr likes very much. Likewise, if someone is refusing to do the things that are clearly stated in their title and gig description they will do for $5 until they’ve been paid more money, I’m sure Fiverr would like to hear about that, because that’s got to be against some policy or terms of service or something. 

[ginnymenges]

Reply to @kjblynx:



When you order something from Amazon or BestBuy, do you contact them first to see if they really are selling the item they have listed for the price they have it listed? Do you contact them to see if they are about to go to bed or if they will be able to ship on time? Of course not. What you have to realize that you, as a seller, are bound by the same rules as Amazon or BestBuy if you wish to sell online in the US. I posted a link so that sellers can educate themselves.



To address your comment about the TV commercials. As I mentioned, the courts will use the reasonable person question. There was a case where someone took a company to court because the TV ad showed someone cashing in loyalty points for a jumbo jet. The court ruled that the ad was just in fun because a “reasonable person” would not believe he or she would get their own jumbo jet for a few million loyalty point.



The difference is that a reasonable person will believe that anything advertised on a site called Fiverr is for sale for exactly $5.



And no, what I have a problem with is Sellers that practice Bait and Switch. But because I want to believe that everyone is really honest I choose to believe that these sellers simply don’t know the Fiverr rules or the US laws. I posted this in hopes that the real honest sellers will understand WHY posting one thing in a header and another in the body of the description is wrong, unethical, against Fiverr rules and against US law.



Anyone the knowingly violates the rules after being advised of the rules/laws, is obviously not ethical.

[ginnymenges]

Reply to @emasonwrites:



What you said in the second paragraph is exactly what I’m addressing here. I see gigs posted like that all the time. To give you an example. One Seller advertises, “I will make your website into a mobile app for $5” Then when you look at the description it states that the $5 only covers a consultation fee for giving a quote on the real cost of making the website into a mobile app.



Also, understand that most of you sellers that are commenting in the forum are writers. You guys (and gals) write for a living so it is only natural that you write in these forums. Your gigs are very straight to the point. There is usually not an issue with your headline matching your description.



Most of the problems come in the other markets, especially the webprograming area. I just opened up that page and here are the first gigs I see:



I will anything related to Google Map API for $5

I will to optimize and secure your website for $5

I will convert any Mockup to Bootstrap for $5

I will create useful web or desktop application in php for $5

I will develop Website for you for $5

I will create GUI for web application,and software for $5

I will write any script in PHP for $5

I will fix any wordpress ,html,css issue or bug for $5

I will develop mobile app for company, business, website for $5

I will create any type of Mobile App for $5



Are you starting to see why I wrote this post? I don’t think these sellers are BAD nor do I think they are trying to Bait and Switch anyone. I think they work with the templet given to them by Fiverr and don’t understand how to write their headline so that it does not break rules and laws.

[ginnymenges]

Reply to @michelltech:



Exactly. I think Fiverr needs to do a better job explaining that concept. The five dollar item is the base model, so to speak. It is the stripped down car without air or cruse control. Then the add ons are used to upgrade the base model.



Unfortunately, many sellers use the five dollar header to advertise what they do and what they ultimately do is create an ad for selling a service for $5 that they didn’t intend.



Like in the examples I gave above. Take “I will create any type of Mobile App for $5” I’m sure what this seller is trying to say is that he or she has the knowledge to make any mobile app for a customer. But instead what he or she has said is that he or she will make ANY mobile app for $5.



I’m hoping this discussion topic will help some of these sellers see why there is an issue.

[ginnymenges]

Reply to @kjblynx:



Also I just looked at your gigs. You are very specific in your headers. I would have no problem ordering from you. You are not the type of seller I was trying to reach or educate with my post, so no need to get so personal or insulting. (last line of your comment)



I also see your from Michigan. I live in Livonia for about 10 years :).



The consumer protection act also requires that that fine print that you spoke of not contradict the advertised byline. Here is another bit about the CPA that most people don’t know. That fine print has to be in a 12pt font to even be enforceable. I laugh my butt off when I see big companies put out ads with font in the “small print” that is smaller than that because if anyone every challenges them in court they are in for a big surprise. Why would they do it if it is not legal, you might ask? Actually it is just ignorance. I worked in advertising for years and never knew some of the ads I myself built for customers were not CPA compliant. I built the ad and the ad ran. No ad I ever built for a customer went to a legal department before being released. It was not until I started studying law that I realize the law was even there.

[ginnymenges]

Reply to @kjblynx:



I’m not addressing sellers like you. You got specific enough to say a homepage in your gig example. Please look at the comment I made to emason-writes below.



I will anything related to Google Map API for $5

I will to optimize and secure your website for $5

I will convert any Mockup to Bootstrap for $5

I will create useful web or desktop application in php for $5

I will develop Website for you for $5

I will create GUI for web application,and software for $5

I will write any script in PHP for $5

I will fix any wordpress ,html,css issue or bug for $5

I will develop mobile app for company, business, website for $5

I will create any type of Mobile App for $5



These are example of where I see a problem. Notice the ongoing use of ANY? There is a big difference between how they write their headers and how you write yours. If everyone wrote like you, I would have have posted this tread.

[ginnymenges]

This is an example of what I, and the FTC, call Bait and Switch. I will not say what gig I found this, but this IS a great example:



Headline:

"I will create any type of Mobile App for $5"



Description:

“Note:

The price for a complete app is not 5$, we can discuss pricing depending on the functionality and complexity of the app you need.”

[michelltech]

Reply to @ginnymenges: I cant agree bait and switch is in regards to an ENTIRELY different thing love.

***UPDATE please consider the normality, it wouldn’t have multiple options or extras and etc if it wasn’t micro, it would be laid out differently…Its a common understanding that you can find alot of stuff for $5, and also, add on to the for a value comparatively. However some seller do use VERY poor wording and Search titles, which has a bit to do with title limitations of fiverr and alot to do with inexperienced sellers, most sellers on fiverr don’t know real business, well, in the non-micro since of responsibility. There are a good many on fiverr who do, but the ones who don’t out weigh that number balance big time. Again, I don’t think this is a Fiverr fault…

 

Reply to @ginnymenges: Yes, I agree. However, it’s a pretty well defined thing, depending on experience and view of this type of marketplace. Micro=upsale option. And the thing with the car, yeah, its sorta like that yep, 100%, and well, in the micro again, its normal. Anyone that thinks a coder will write a f sv api for $5 must not understand anything about, well, anything, lol…Just saying…I agree with alot of what your saying but lets not however call fiverr a bait and switch, thats a CON, this is a micro=job marketing, and Upsale from low hook is very normal, and legit…I hope everything worked out for you on the other stuff dear…Let me know… 

[fonthaunt]

Like many here, I am a buyer and a seller and have had good and bad experiences with both. I also realize I am using a freelance platform that is still somewhat new in comparison to bigger companies and “buyer beware” applies. Regardless, there are some holes in your arguments.



As others have said, gig titles are very limited and are only TITLES, not entire contracts or full advertisements. Lots of examples exist and since you used Amazon, I will start there. No, I don’t contact them first before transactions. I do read the descriptions pretty carefully and I’ve still had to occasionally request cancellations over miscommunication. You can do that on Fiverr too.



On Amazon I just saw a phone banner ad with the title “Samsung Galaxy S5, White $79.99.” I saw some for even less but I picked that one because it is reasonable to think I could buy a phone for that. When I read the fine print I found out the phone isn’t $5 or $79.99 or even $300. The price of the phone is $599. If I buy a phone plan, I get a huge discount but the title doesn’t say that. You could argue that I should know about phone plans, but my parents actually do not and they are educated about many things. There are many reasonable people who could argue the phone price. Might even win in court but I doubt it.



Much more I could poke holes in, but the bottom line is that you are a disgruntled buyer (I have been before too) and you are searching for things to complain about. I complain about things on Fiverr too. Fiverr states “We provide no warranty with respect to the Gigs, their delivery, and any communications between buyers and sellers.” It might be a good time to either put these posts in the rants forum or if the sire really isn’t for you, buy elsewhere. I do get that you are mad and I wish it had gone better for you. Time to get a grip, though.

[radugeorgescu]

Hello,
Do people expect the world for just $5 ? if the work hours behind one buyer’s task is worth more than $5 … and that sellers explains that right after the order is placed, why is that an issue ? there is no slave here, we have the right to refuse or take on a task just like any other user on fiverr.com

And knowing what you know why is it so hard to contact a buyer before placing the order ? or you want to force the order on them cause they advertised it for $5 ? all you have to do is use www.fiverr.com/conversations/ …

Nobody can anticipate the work behind one’s task to have a fix price for everything… The price will always reflect the quality of the results in most of the cases except false advertising which you will deal with, no matter how you aproach this…

If you know what you are doing you could get $200-$500 worth of logo design for less than $50
or you could get for $50, something that is not worth $5 … And some consider this the beauty of fiverr.

 

Reply to @kjblynx: Ok I agree with you on that you are 100% correct. A seller can’t edit the “I will” and “for $5” in a gig’s title you just fill in what is between and make it work…

In some cases you could get a task that requires alot of time behind it let’s say it will take you more than 12 hours to complete, and you advertised for 24 hours delivery in your gig’s title. That means that you will be stuck more than half a day workin on a task for just $5…

So you have 3 options:

1. you do the task for just $5 using more than half your day…
2. You explain the issue to your buyer as soon as possible, and try to agree on a fair quote for both parties (he/she has the option to petition for a mutual cancellation the only issue would be the wasted time, but if you reply in time … I do not see it as an issue for the buyer, more likely for the seller as he get’s +1 to cancelled orders…
3. You just do a mutual cancellation and explain that you can’t help with that task…

What would you choose my friend ? 🙂 

[iwritecopy]

I think you are trying to take advantage of small technicalities to rip off sellers instead of just using common sense and communication before placing an order.

[fonthaunt]

Reply to @kjblynx: Her given example, though, was a title that said “I will create a response website for $5” and then her argument was that the seller is bound to create ANY responsive website for $5. She also said that statements in the description don’t change that. I don’t think that was about someone refusing to work at all for 5.



By that logic, the seller has to create a 25 page site using a responsive theme of buyer’s choice even if the theme costs the seller hundreds. I understand what she means but I think it is sort of asking for the world over a restricted title and ignoring the description. The seller should only have to provide “a” site, not “any.” Just an extra 2 cents.

[rakib19]

I put in my gig that please contact with me before giving a order.



Is it right?

[fonthaunt]

Reply to @radugeorgescu: Hmmm, I just checked and no one owns the moon. I will sell you the moon for $5. Thanks for the gig idea!

[radugeorgescu]

Reply to @fonthaunt: I agree I understand that… so that is why you need to use some common sense and discuss your task with your seller.



If you realise that what you are asking is worth alot more than what is advertised, and you still order instead of contacting the seller, and you push the title/description facts on him… you are taking advantage over that seller…



One seller can’t possibly cover every future task and the work behind it in a gig’s description… In some cases where you sell the same thing to everyone yes… but I think common sense explains that already.

[fonthaunt]

Reply to @kjblynx: The thread did run a bit wild! I do report sellers if I find they circumvent the $5 base requirement. Now if we could just get Fiverr to stick to having a base $5 with no extra fees to buyers, that would be great.

[radugeorgescu]

Reply to @ginnymenges:



A seller can’t edit “I will” or “for $5” in the title so if I say:



I will… oh wait “able” does not work hmmm so what’s next? oh yes “do” 😃



does that explain it for you ?



how would a title sound “I will” able to do anything in photoshop "for $5"



so you are left with the description ok so you mention all the additional info in the description, then some people go “oh wait but the title says something else” …



in either cases as a buyer you can cancel at any point… and have the CS behind you… Nothing is forced on you and you have nothing to lose except time which is lost for both parties more or less.

[fonthaunt]

Reply to @kjblynx: What?? I never see you on the forum… Aw, my wink face fell off. Editing post to re-add wink. 😉

[kawebb]

The main reason I ask people to contact me prior to purchase is because I’ve lost jobs before due to my writing style being ‘unusual’ and being a ghostwriter means I can’t have a live portfolio, so I can send them samples of how I write and they can see if they like it before I start work on whatever it is they want.



It also gives me a chance to tell people if I feel I’m capable of writing their story - I try not to work on things that are set in places I’ve never been to, because I don’t know enough about them in order to make the story realistic.

[m2webs]

I must say OP is right. In some cases people do not read descriptions but in many cases you can realize that for $5 you actually get nothing.



But I think fiverr can’t control that easy as there are thousands of gigs. But after I time I suppose those kind of sellers have big cancellation rate and not so good scores as they have bigger chances to get bad reviews so things come to where they should be.

[catwriter]

I’m not sure that buying products from Amazon is the best analogy for buying services at Fiverr. I see it more like hiring someone to do a particular task. Isn’t it a good idea to interview the potential contractor first and see whether they’re the right person for what you need?

[ginnymenges]

Reply to @fonthaunt:

Actually I’m NOT a disgruntled buyer. I have had one bad experience and many many good ones. I have actually paid a seller who was not able to do the work I requested because I know he put effort into it and I knew going into the gig that a solution might not be available. But I see an on going issue that I wanted to address. And judging by the comments here, I was right to think that many sellers do not understand US Consumer Protection laws.

Simply put - Fiverr does create limitations on the wording of the header that can’t be changed. That is because the base idea behind this website is “what people will do for $5” There are other sites, such as freelancer.com, that does not require a base gig of $5. But here on Fiverr, that is a requirement. The seller is fully responsible for correctly communicating what he or she will do for that base $5. To sell on Fiverr, you must have a base gig that you sell for $5. It really is that simple.

This post was an attempt to educate, not rant. I don’t believe I have ranted, as you put it, about anything. I see an “us against them” attitude in the post of many seller when I read post of other buyers. I think this needs to be address, so I addressed it.

Sellers MUST learn to communicate correctly the limitations of their base $5 gig. This responsibility fall solely on the shoulders of the seller. (This is communication 101 for those who did not attend college. The sender of the message, the author of the text, and the speaker of the sentence is ultimately responsible for ensuring that the message is relayed correctly.) 

[ginnymenges]

Reply to @kjblynx:



Actually my example was a GREAT one because I pulled it from case law that was being discussed in one of my law classes. The burden of providing the advertised service did fall on the “seller”. The wording mistake made by the “seller” was not the problem of the “buyer”, was the ruling of the court.



The moral here is that sellers need to pay closer attention to what they are advertising to prevent misunderstanding. You also MUST have a base gig that you are selling for $5. No one says it has to be elaborate or worth more than $5. But a five dollar gig is required none the less!!

[ginnymenges]

Reply to @radugeorgescu:



Which is exactly why you have to actually have a service (gig) that you are selling for $5. Fiver uses the “I will” … “for $5” to try and force this basic RULE of selling on Fiverr.



If you are selling photoshop service it is very easy to word it correctly:

"I will edit one picture for a max of 20 minutes for $5"



does that explain for you?