Is it normal Customers want you to test for Free?

[metal_pro]

Hey there, i am a Member on here for a couple of months now, offering to Mix Metal Music in my Studio - doing this for Decades now. Glad this Platform exist, but: Though i added a Gig with checking me out starting at 20 Dollars for one Song (what means you get a whole lot af Data and start at Zero by setting this up, sort it out start listening to every single Instrument Track, doing Edits, clean ups and EQing, and mix it together until it fits - a huge Amount of Work) - all i got were Messages with whole Data included, asking me to do a Testmix to see if i am “any good”. For Example, I received a Song with 87 (!) Single Tracks and my only Information was “make it Sound BIG”. Not too much of Information how a Band wants to sound like.
Well, okay, I asked myself why I should do this for Free, but I did it - I spent a couple of Days creating and sending not just one, but 3 different Versions, asking them if it would meet their Taste since i had exactly NO Information what they wanted - And I had to wait a Week for the Answer, actually I had to ask for an Answer (!) and got “This is not what we are looking for”. 3 Days at a huge Project, no Dollars, not even a Thank You. So is it normal you put up a Gig very cheap and instead of spending that cheap Amount on testing - Customers use Direct Messages to avoid Costs? Just wondering, because i never experienced something different here…

Cheers and Thank You, Metal Pro.

[enunciator]

Hey there, i am a Member on here for a couple of months now, offering to Mix Metal Music in my Studio - doing this for Decades now. Glad this Platform exist, but: Though i added a Gig with checking me out starting at 20 Dollars for one Song (what means you get a whole lot af Data and start at Zero by setting this up, sort it out start listening to every single Instrument Track, doing Edits, clean ups and EQing, and mix it together until it fits - a huge Amount of Work) - all i got were Messages with whole Data included, asking me to do a Testmix to see if i am “any good”. For Example, I received a Song with 87 (!) Single Tracks and my only Information was “make it Sound BIG”. Not too much of Information how a Band wants to sound like.

Well, okay, I asked myself why I should do this for Free, but I did it - I spent a couple of Days creating and sending not just one, but 3 different Versions, asking them if it would meet their Taste since i had exactly NO Information what they wanted - And I had to wait a Week for the Answer, actually I had to ask for an Answer (!) and got “This is not what we are looking for”. 3 Days at a huge Project, no Dollars, not even a Thank You. So is it normal you put up a Gig very cheap and instead of spending that cheap Amount on testing - Customers use Direct Messages to avoid Costs? Just wondering, because i never experienced something different here…

Cheers and Thank You, Metal Pro.

asking me to do a Testmix to see if i am “any good”.

That right there was the blaring warning cue to ditch the freeloader. There are many predators and scammers looking for freebies and you unfortunately encountered one.

No order, no work. The simplest and most fool-proof policy to follow.

[benedictrm]

It is sadly normal that poor customers ask this. It should always be normal that you decline. Either by:

• here is my Portfolio, if you like what you see let me know and we can start a contract
• this will take me x hours so would you like me to create a custom job for $y?
• explain to this poor excuse for a 💩 stain that they are being completely unprofessional so they can a) apologize and get on with business like an adult, or b) eff off never to attempt to drag you into their puddle of slime again.

That or just block them as “to see if you are any good” is just plain offensive. if they do this in the honeymoon, imagine how bad they will be later?

🙂

[metal_pro]

asking me to do a Testmix to see if i am “any good”.

That right there was the blaring warning cue to ditch the freeloader. There are many predators and scammers looking for freebies and you unfortunately encountered one.

No order, no work. The simplest and most fool-proof policy to follow.

Always someone, everywhere. Thanks for letting me know. Lucky me I found out who this particularly Customer was and watch his Socials. If he uses my Mix i can prove it because for a good Reason i added a little something that wasnt there before 😉

Thank You enunciator!

[metal_pro]

It is sadly normal that poor customers ask this. It should always be normal that you decline. Either by:

• here is my Portfolio, if you like what you see let me know and we can start a contract
• this will take me x hours so would you like me to create a custom job for $y?
• explain to this poor excuse for a 💩 stain that they are being completely unprofessional so they can a) apologize and get on with business like an adult, or b) eff off never to attempt to drag you into their puddle of slime again.

That or just block them as “to see if you are any good” is just plain offensive. if they do this in the honeymoon, imagine how bad they will be later?

🙂 Well, i am still waiting for my first moneybased Job here, so i thought i’d swallow my Pride - but added a little extra in that Mix they wont notice, in case they used it, i have a Proof I did this. That Honeymoon Thing is a Vibe, lol, brilliant 🙂 Thank You!

[benedictrm]

$20 for a Metal Mix is far too little. This will encourage more clueless (or worse) customers. Look at how long a Mix takes and charge appropriately. I take 8-10 hours end to end for an average mix so $150 is stupidly low (esp after 20% leaves $120).

As a Mix Engineer myself I would say that some better organization of Portfolio would be a good plan. Try to lead with real band work instead of “open tracks” like the DiAnno as it doesn’t represent what their Roided Reaper Ragefest is likely to sound like. (I know, right now I am leading with an open track myself in the gig slot, my Mix Reel is better).

Lead by example.

🙂

[metal_pro]

$20 for a Metal Mix is far too little. This will encourage more clueless (or worse) customers. Look at how long a Mix takes and charge appropriately. I take 8-10 hours end to end for an average mix so $150 is stupidly low (esp after 20% leaves $120).

As a Mix Engineer myself I would say that some better organization of Portfolio would be a good plan. Try to lead with real band work instead of “open tracks” like the DiAnno as it doesn’t represent what their Roided Reaper Ragefest is likely to sound like. (I know, right now I am leading with an open track myself in the gig slot, my Mix Reel is better).

Lead by example.

🙂 Thank You!

[benedictrm]

Thanks for the Advice benedictrm - Actually i am working with Paul Di Anno, played in his Band and did the last Live Album, but i felt starting this Gigs with a Show Off wouldnt be the best Idea - Maybe I should, tho. That Open Track is actually the Remaster i am working on and switches from Original to Remastered and Back in it. 20 Bucks is way to cheap, i know - But i kind of researched the Site and found so many Gigs that even go for free, or pretty risky high where i wouldnt want to afford 250 Dollars to check someone out - So i thought placing myself as a Newbie on here somewhere cheap would make it easier to get started - obiously wrong, lol 🙂 Thank You!

Ooh my bad. You go right ahead then and color me humbled & impressed (not to mention jealous). I think you should mention that as it is relevant in the extreme.

It is a very clean sound. I get in trouble for doing that (see below). Poor sad fools who think that music is only real when it sounds like mud. I like a clean mix when it helps tell the story - express the beauty. that is a nice song. Paul is sounding good.

Lots of people say do the start cheap thing and I get it but there is getting Kevin “Caveman” Shirley when he was young & cheap and there is getting Ugly McUseless for $5 who would be well named for any price. Nothing I have done cheap has ever a) brought the customer back or b) gotten me more work so it was time wasted - unless the Portfolio pieces count - but if they didn’t bring more work…

🙂

Angel 7 - Genghis Khan - Benedict Roff - Marsh Mix in Mix Reel (more on YouTube) (soundcloud.com)

[metal_pro]

Ooh my bad. You go right ahead then and color me humbled & impressed (not to mention jealous). I think you should mention that as it is relevant in the extreme.

It is a very clean sound. I get in trouble for doing that (see below). Poor sad fools who think that music is only real when it sounds like mud. I like a clean mix when it helps tell the story - express the beauty. that is a nice song. Paul is sounding good.

Lots of people say do the start cheap thing and I get it but there is getting Kevin “Caveman” Shirley when he was young & cheap and there is getting Ugly McUseless for $5 who would be well named for any price. Nothing I have done cheap has ever a) brought the customer back or b) gotten me more work so it was time wasted - unless the Portfolio pieces count - but if they didn’t bring more work…

🙂

Angel 7 - Genghis Khan - Benedict Roff - Marsh Mix in Mix Reel (more on YouTube) (soundcloud.com)

No need to be jealous, Sir. Luck and Pain just walk Hand in Hand and always fight each other who is in the Lead 😉

Just listening to your Mix of Genghis Khan - Very clear, thats what i like - great Job! Especially I like Mixes where no one tried to bend the Banana to a V and everything gets unnatural and scooped as F just to bring Instruments back up with Frequencies you wouldnt need if you werent filtering the F out of everything before - ending with a Loudness Mastering Blast making a Wave flat on Top with your Digital System trying to write the Peak to a “2” lol - This is not what it should be like. Keep it natural in Dynamics and Frequencies. I have another 2 Mixes in my Portfolio where you can see that, too - Need to figure out if we could put up more stuff Customers could listen to, i have Tons. In “real” Life, meaning having People visiting and recording with me, I often give Discount to Bands that are doing well but low Budget, and many of them were so pleased and came back with a higher Budget. That online World seems to be different, Alrighty then! 🙂 Will work this over, Thank You, very much appreciated!

[benedictrm]

No need to be jealous, Sir. Luck and Pain just walk Hand in Hand and always fight each other who is in the Lead 😉

Just listening to your Mix of Genghis Khan - Very clear, thats what i like - great Job! Especially I like Mixes where no one tried to bend the Banana to a V and everything gets unnatural and scooped as F just to bring Instruments back up with Frequencies you wouldnt need if you werent filtering the F out of everything before - ending with a Loudness Mastering Blast making a Wave flat on Top with your Digital System trying to write the Peak to a “2” lol - This is not what it should be like. Keep it natural in Dynamics and Frequencies. I have another 2 Mixes in my Portfolio where you can see that, too - Need to figure out if we could put up more stuff Customers could listen to, i have Tons. In “real” Life, meaning having People visiting and recording with me, I often give Discount to Bands that are doing well but low Budget, and many of them were so pleased and came back with a higher Budget. That online World seems to be different, Alrighty then! 🙂 Will work this over, Thank You, very much appreciated!

Thanks on the Angel 7 Mix. You are the first person not to say I made a mess (by not doing all those wrong things you said). I really appreciate that.

You can make portfolio on Soundcloud or YouTube and link to them as they are both TOS approved outbound targets. Good customers will go, bad ones won’t. It is a way to tell as those who clearly haven’t listed to a thing will give it away first message.

Here are mine:

• BB Critch feat Mella - Port Aransus - Benedict Roff-Marsh Radio Mix in Mix Reel (more on YouTube) (soundcloud.com)

[metal_pro]

Thanks on the Angel 7 Mix. You are the first person not to say I made a mess (by not doing all those wrong things you said). I really appreciate that.

You can make portfolio on Soundcloud or YouTube and link to them as they are both TOS approved outbound targets. Good customers will go, bad ones won’t. It is a way to tell as those who clearly haven’t listed to a thing will give it away first message.

Here are mine:

• BB Critch feat Mella - Port Aransus - Benedict Roff-Marsh Radio Mix in Mix Reel (more on YouTube) (soundcloud.com)

You’re Welcome. At First, everything is a Matter of Taste, but also - and this is very important - The Devices Customers are using to listen to Your Work. Black Metal is for some Folks supposed to be sounding like recorded in an empty Beer Can in the Norwegian Forest, cause it sounded like that when this came up back in the Days. The Crossover in this Song also contains a very Maidenish Guitarwork, a EZ Drummer Set up and a solid Bass, how would you go and make this sound worse - You did good on that Fake Drumset, Bass could have been a bit more Pounding the Bottom (Taste), Guitars are good and all in all there is Dynamics left. If you send a Mix to a Customer who f.E. “accidentally” dropped his Nose into White Powder Chemicals, he would not be able to hear upper Mids and dislike even a Grammy nominated Mix. There are many Reasons some dont like a Result, but many of them are just a Misunderstanding of Things. I like your Mix, the Clarity, bit more Bottom would be my personal Choice, but it is far far away from “a Mess”. I should set up a Soundcloud Thing myself, thanks for telling me! I just looked at your Walkthrough Vid to Genghis Khan, nice Shirt, but you need a new Chair! Hahaha 🙂 Thank You!

[teramangala]

You’re Welcome. At First, everything is a Matter of Taste, but also - and this is very important - The Devices Customers are using to listen to Your Work. Black Metal is for some Folks supposed to be sounding like recorded in an empty Beer Can in the Norwegian Forest, cause it sounded like that when this came up back in the Days. The Crossover in this Song also contains a very Maidenish Guitarwork, a EZ Drummer Set up and a solid Bass, how would you go and make this sound worse - You did good on that Fake Drumset, Bass could have been a bit more Pounding the Bottom (Taste), Guitars are good and all in all there is Dynamics left. If you send a Mix to a Customer who f.E. “accidentally” dropped his Nose into White Powder Chemicals, he would not be able to hear upper Mids and dislike even a Grammy nominated Mix. There are many Reasons some dont like a Result, but many of them are just a Misunderstanding of Things. I like your Mix, the Clarity, bit more Bottom would be my personal Choice, but it is far far away from “a Mess”. I should set up a Soundcloud Thing myself, thanks for telling me! I just looked at your Walkthrough Vid to Genghis Khan, nice Shirt, but you need a new Chair! Hahaha 🙂 Thank You!

Awesome !

What a pleasure to hear the voice of Paul Dianno from Iron Maiden when we were young :love_you_gesture:

[moditha_damindu]

Handled very well Good one

[benedictrm]

You’re Welcome. At First, everything is a Matter of Taste, but also - and this is very important - The Devices Customers are using to listen to Your Work. Black Metal is for some Folks supposed to be sounding like recorded in an empty Beer Can in the Norwegian Forest, cause it sounded like that when this came up back in the Days. The Crossover in this Song also contains a very Maidenish Guitarwork, a EZ Drummer Set up and a solid Bass, how would you go and make this sound worse - You did good on that Fake Drumset, Bass could have been a bit more Pounding the Bottom (Taste), Guitars are good and all in all there is Dynamics left. If you send a Mix to a Customer who f.E. “accidentally” dropped his Nose into White Powder Chemicals, he would not be able to hear upper Mids and dislike even a Grammy nominated Mix. There are many Reasons some dont like a Result, but many of them are just a Misunderstanding of Things. I like your Mix, the Clarity, bit more Bottom would be my personal Choice, but it is far far away from “a Mess”. I should set up a Soundcloud Thing myself, thanks for telling me! I just looked at your Walkthrough Vid to Genghis Khan, nice Shirt, but you need a new Chair! Hahaha 🙂 Thank You!

That is my new chair - a gift. The old one was tattered and hurt to sit on but was quiet. I should swap to a stool with no moving parts when I make videos.

I modeled the Genghis Khan mix on Sabbath’s “Heaven & Hell” and similar things. I wanted to pull back from the original mix which was all Wham! Blam! and therefore squashed the beauty in there. I had recently listened to a Manilla Read record (for the first time) and while not the bestest mix eva I liked the openness of it. The honesty. Bass is a tricky one. People want lots then the mix sounds like bass with some other stuff on top rather than a Song. maybe yes it is a bit light on but all we can do is what feels right at the time.

🙂

[english_voice]

It’s a hard lesson to learn - but never do work or provide custom samples for free. If a potential buyer wants to experience your work - then they either pay for your time with a custom sample, or you, as the seller, provide a broad enough generic demo that showcases your talent and that is available for any potential buyer to access and listen to.

The sort of ‘buyer’ you had probably wouldn’t even have replied had you suggested they pay for a sample. And that’s my point! This person was always likely going to be a time wasting cheapskate. We live and learn.

Also, is a serious musician going to trust a $20 gig on Fiverr? Or would they rather spend $200 on a service, which to me feels like a more realistic starting point. Any buyer who wants to only pay $20 for a creative service is likely to be trouble. It’s often said - cheap gigs attract cheap and troublesome buyers.

[tauseefabbas123]

that client the other day approached me telling me he liked my proposal and wanted to hire me, however, can i be open to write him a piece for free as they wanted to test my skills?. (he also told me if he liked my work, he will hire me for a weekly job). I responded no thanks, he can see my samples, or can place an order for a single article; (and he blocked me immediately).

[gwyneth_galvin]

Absolutely agree with everyone saying that you should charge more for your time. I realize starting out can be tricky and you may decide to keep your prices low while you rack up some reviews, but if you choose to do that make sure you’re not letting buyers take advantage of you in addition to the massive discount they’re getting.

I get asked to perform free samples frequently as a voice actor. The potential buyer always expects me to perform all or most of their script in my studio, edit it, and and the final mastered version. What they get is a 3 or 4 sentence sample recorded on my phone microphone and a polite message saying that if they’d like to hear the quality of my work they can listen to my demo and samples on my gig page. X

[mjaninea]

Sadly, it’s a normal thing, but it doesn’t mean it’s right and that you should do it.

When I was a new seller, I was willing to send samples for free ecc, but fortunately I’ve learned here in the Forum to never do that. You spend minutes, hours of your precious time in making a sample without even the guarantee that the buyer is going to purchase your service + they could use the sample without you knowing, and there you go, they would have what they needed without spending anything.

So, it’s like working for free and that we as sellers should never do that. We should value ourselves, our work and our time.

[metal_pro]

Thanks for all Your Effort in anwering this, i appreciate You. To be honest, i found it sort of difficult to set up a proper Gig that delivers as many Cases as possible, so i built one that was cheap for one Song, but way higher for an additional Song + additional Fees on Reamping Guitars, Resampling Drums and whatever we all are able to do. So that “20 Dollar cheap” was just like okay, i will put Time in this and if the Result aint that good, we should add some Dollars to reamp this or that, or resample this or that - You never know what is being send to you, out of Tune Drumkit with 55% Bleed Level Editors Nightmare - or whatever - so i wanted to make clear that i wont do the whole Package for a Bag of Mentos and an Ice Coffee - and of Course i’d never promise you’d sound like the Big Ones that are still able to put a Shxxload of Money into a Production, cause that would be BlaBla at its Best. I will think this over, Thank You!

[marinapomorac]

Hey there, i am a Member on here for a couple of months now, offering to Mix Metal Music in my Studio - doing this for Decades now. Glad this Platform exist, but: Though i added a Gig with checking me out starting at 20 Dollars for one Song (what means you get a whole lot af Data and start at Zero by setting this up, sort it out start listening to every single Instrument Track, doing Edits, clean ups and EQing, and mix it together until it fits - a huge Amount of Work) - all i got were Messages with whole Data included, asking me to do a Testmix to see if i am “any good”. For Example, I received a Song with 87 (!) Single Tracks and my only Information was “make it Sound BIG”. Not too much of Information how a Band wants to sound like.

Well, okay, I asked myself why I should do this for Free, but I did it - I spent a couple of Days creating and sending not just one, but 3 different Versions, asking them if it would meet their Taste since i had exactly NO Information what they wanted - And I had to wait a Week for the Answer, actually I had to ask for an Answer (!) and got “This is not what we are looking for”. 3 Days at a huge Project, no Dollars, not even a Thank You. So is it normal you put up a Gig very cheap and instead of spending that cheap Amount on testing - Customers use Direct Messages to avoid Costs? Just wondering, because i never experienced something different here…

Cheers and Thank You, Metal Pro.

This is the title of the topic: “Is it normal Customers want you to test for Free?” and I want to give another opinion.

As buyer if I was burnt before I would very much like to have evidence does the seller actually know what he is doing or not.

Anyone can put in portfolio song or image they found on internet and claim they worked as apprentice of Picasso or AC DC.

Portfolio on Fiverr has zero value because it can be faked 100%.

If my order is time sensitive then yes, I would like to order sample (ORDER custom SAMPLE, not free sample). But what happened when I took that route is I wasted 50$ (10×5) on 10 sellers that have no skills what so ever as advertised.

And YES, I know I should have asked for money back or leave a negative review, but the work they deliver is as per their description, it just sucks, and since I know TOS; “no creativity” is not a valid reason for the refund.

“This is not what we are looking for”

I had that once on my package design order 200$, instead of 1 design paid, I offered 7 different concepts. Got the same reply as you and asked for cancelation.

It was my first event of this kind ever, and I thought how to proceed. At the time all I had was Fiver TOS. I could fight and get money. But I decided to accept the cancelation and add client brief with my own terms and conditions in all my GIGs so that they include “No refund” policy.

[metal_pro]

This is the title of the topic: “Is it normal Customers want you to test for Free?” and I want to give another opinion.

As buyer if I was burnt before I would very much like to have evidence does the seller actually know what he is doing or not.

Anyone can put in portfolio song or image they found on internet and claim they worked as apprentice of Picasso or AC DC.

Portfolio on Fiverr has zero value because it can be faked 100%.

If my order is time sensitive then yes, I would like to order sample (ORDER custom SAMPLE, not free sample). But what happened when I took that route is I wasted 50$ (10×5) on 10 sellers that have no skills what so ever as advertised.

And YES, I know I should have asked for money back or leave a negative review, but the work they deliver is as per their description, it just sucks, and since I know TOS; “no creativity” is not a valid reason for the refund.

“This is not what we are looking for”

I had that once on my package design order 200$, instead of 1 design paid, I offered 7 different concepts. Got the same reply as you and asked for cancelation.

It was my first event of this kind ever, and I thought how to proceed. At the time all I had was Fiver TOS. I could fight and get money. But I decided to accept the cancelation and add client brief with my own terms and conditions in all my GIGs so that they include “No refund” policy.

Some good Arguments indeed. The only good Thing about it is, Scam Portfolio Sellers wont survive very long as far as I can see here, so the Damage they do might be small - and as far as I know, Fiverr keeps the Money until there is a “Go” from the Customer or something like that, right?

[imagination7413]

I see a lot of advice that encourages the freelance tropes - the idea that we’re all workaholic night owls, perpetually hunched over keyboards, waiting at the beck and call of potential clients.

Never log out…

Always be agreeable to clients…

Give free samples or mock ups…

Answer right away…

If you needed an experienced professional to give you permission, in plain words, here it is: it’s okay to be a human being.

Never give out free work. No samples. No mockups. Period. That’s what your po…