Is this a breach of TOS?

[sue_mcl]

I do voiceovers on fiverr. I had a gig ordered this morning, by someone who it seems has asked me to supply a demp (partly reading their script and partly inserting my own voiceover examples), so they can list it on their own site for their customers to potentially choose me to voice things like videos they are producing (I assume they are doing the same thing for video peeps). They say that if they want to order anything, they will put it back through fiverr, but want to have something for their customers to hear to choose the voice they want.



Something just seemed a little off about it, I tried to cancel, but they were very insistent, but I am not sure if it seems off because they are kind of getting me to basically register on their site, but paying me a gig to do so…



Has anyone else had any issues with doing things like this and does this breach the fiverr TOS, or is it OK because they will put the work though fiverr?

[philtabest]

I’m not 100% sure on the Fiverr terms, but I’m sure if they’re putting the business back through to Fiverr then it wouldn’t go against their terms. That would be like saying that advertising your Fiverr gigs outside of Fiverr is in breach of the terms. What website is this anyway?

[sincere18]

Have you looked at their website? It sounds like it’s more like a private labeling kind of thing. That they are a company that wants to offer various services, which in and of itself is fine. They say here is a sample of a voice we can give you for your project, in that way it’s legit.



However, I would NOT put your own samples on there.



I would go back to them and tell them you cannot insert your own samples as that is copyrighted information and may not be used in any other audio without a proper contract signed giving permission and that you are not willing to do that at this time without formal contract reviews and that is outside of the scope of this gig you sell on Fiverr. If you would like to send me a full script for your audio project I would be happy to record that for you, if not, then do please agree to the cancel order.



Something like that.

[joeyperezwest]

All and all if they found you on fiverr they should compensate on fiverr, and also you can tell them that you don’t wholesale your stuff on fiverr without them ordering a large amount anyways so that way you still have control of the product (your voice) in a way.

[landongrace]

I would have them totally provide the script for the current order. You don’t provide media available for insert. You are not giving any personal information or contact information so it is hard for them to setup a third party account on your behalf. When they get orders on their site, they are going to have to order them from you.



I have several clients that are re-sellers. One orders 5 or 6 $25.00 projects a week. I get what I normally charge, they add other value to it and sell it higher. I wouldn’t do a project for free, but I probably would supply a sample that I had the rights to distribute.

Provide a 15 second read as a sample. Do not discount or make long term deals.



I show very clear examples of what I provide to my customers. They should have a clear understanding of my style before they order. When dealing with a re-seller, that is usually the breakdown. A new re-seller is going to have to learn how to do that. It’s dangerous if you have to help them.



You may want to only provide one voice for this this client. When there is someone in between you and the customer, it has helped to be very consistent. Not as much customization. Less options. Not more options.



I have found that I really need repeat work. If I can gain 5-10 new repeat customers every month, it doesn’t matter what my search engine results are in Fiverr.

[happyspace]

Something fishy here. I have the feeling they want to somehow exploit you.



I have seen a website that was supposed to be selling their employees voiceoves, graphic designs, music etc but they were using samples from Fiverr users for that. And… they were selling these services around 100$ (instead of $5)!



But of course it is your decision. I think that your first idea to ask for cancellation was right. I suggest you trust both your logic and your intuition. If you want to cancel for a good reason no one can force you to work for them.



all the best 🙂

[sue_mcl]

I ended up giving him a VO just of the script he gave me, tried to get him to explain what it was that he did, but I still didn’t get it. Anyway, I told him my concerns and that anything needed to come through fiverr and I wouldnt be able to notify him if I was away etc, so I suppose he may book occasional gigs and make lots of $$ of them.



Thanks for the tips @landongrace, that is really helpful 🙂 I have a few repeat customers now, most are great, but some seem to struggle with the connect between me and the final customer, meaning I end up re-doing things because they haven’t been clear. I have changed my revision policy accordingly now though - I will only revise IF the buyer has given me direction and I don’t get it right - no direction, no re-read 🙂



I have seen the website I think you may be talking about @happyspace, so frustrating!

[landongrace]

Reply to @sue_mcl: When I have a frustrating customer, I can take the opportunity to raise the price on the next order to provide for the extra accommodations they require. If it becomes fun for me at the new rate, then it is a great way to move from a $5 level to a $25.00 or $50 to $150 level. If you go that route, you will have to change your description to 1 or 2 scenarios. You can’t allow them to build a price through 1000 words. If I can’t get them to read my description, how in the world am I going to get them to understand how to build my gig extras. Kind of funny, when you think about it.



This will really challenge your perspective on gig extras. I did this with my whiteboard video, but I haven’t tried it in the voice over category.

Offer only 2 deals in your description. Your $5.00 deal - 75 words or for $25.00 I can provide 150 words, with background music and deliver as high quality Wav. If you need something different please feel free to message me. I would enjoy giving you a custom quote.



Or, If you did $5.00 for 40 words, how would this limit your demand? If you stop getting orders than it is limiting it too much. 40 words or even 50 words is not 30 seconds and would not be enough for most projects. That would push them into the next level and pay more. In the next level everything is included whether they need music or not. You can still send it with no music or even mp3 and charge the $25.00 fee. It all depends on if the market will pay that for the voice over.



It gives them less choices and gives you the ability to custom quote on larger projects. For me it gets much more expensive as the word count rises. I have to deal more with continuity and other aspects of the order.



When I was doing voice over orders, I would send a lot of samples of the first 2 lines. This gave the customer a test of the voice and eliminated any problems with expectations. You are a voice actor and it is an acting gig. Lots of room for interpretation.



My voice over gig is paused right now. I seemed to get a lot of $5.00 150 word orders and I was not able to change that because of the competition in the north american male category. The Australian category is probably much different.



We are in the best position when someone orders it because they like us and our work, not because of the price. My friend provides voice overs locally and is about $75 per 30 seconds, I use him when I can, but his rate per second on voice over is sometimes larger than my entire video budget per second is. But he stays really busy.



Good luck with it!

[power_design]

I make video here on Fiverr and some of my clients resell my videos somewhere. That’s how life is.

I see it’s no problems as long as they pay through Fiverr system.

We are fine as long we follow the rule.

Good luck to your work.

[webtelly]

I think it brings up an interesting point, and that is a certain duality to Fiverr. We are providing a service that can be sold somewhere else at a much higher price, but to do that ourselves, we would have to leave the safety of Fiverr and its easy transaction model. For example, I write press releases, which sell like hot cakes. I go on Freelancer, and I could make $25 or more for the same press release. But I get a headache dealing with Freelancer. You have to figure out the bidding, people want samples, I see a lot of reputable lancers with 50% completion rate, which means most likely that someone has run off with their work and screwed them out of the money and a good review. But, at the same time, I cannot figure out how to charge more for my press releases. They are only one page 400 word goodies. I can’t “hook” someone on something like a title or a paragraph, and then get them to buy an extra. It’s one and done. So, in your case, I think anyone who buys your product is a buyer. All the other stuff they want to tell you or sell you is their business. I would tell them to keep it to themselves, and just pay up.

[landongrace]

Reply to @webtelly: You could sell text for a press tweet for $5.00 or they could get a tweet, short facebook post with tease and a 400 word press release for $25.00. But I am no writer.

[marketman]

I agree with bacha and others. As well, if someone wants a “sample” I would send them a sample of various text to include your Fiverr ID in the audio. I would also change the detail properties of the audio.

[sincere18]

Reply to @webtelly: I agree. You should just tell the buyer you only deal direclty with you and anything they wish to do with your work once the order is complete is up to them.



Once you leave Fiverr, trying to actually get clients/buyers in and of itself becomes a full-time business. How do you even get clients? You have to spend a lot of time of advertising and marketing in a way that takes much more time, effort and money.



And it’s also a regular business model in general. Most service agencies outsource and have various freelancers do the work, but they bill the client a much higher rate, it’s how they make money. Same thing with any kind of service business, even an employment agency. They do all the work to find a candidate who gets paid $12 per hour but the agency makes $25 from the company that hired them to get the workers.



SAme concept all across the board. I think many people do not want to be in their own business, but are findnig ways to increase their earnings here on FIverr, so you are not just doing $5 gigs. Many people do that to start, but then quickly grow it. YOu get different level of clients buying only $5 gigs vs. adding extras and stuff.

[sue_mcl]

Lots of great food for thought. I started out with VO’s on the other sites - freelancer, odesk, elance etc and while you can charge more there, I was spending a crazy amount of time applying, doing demos, and often I would only get maybe 1 out of 10 jobs that I applied for, so if I looked at hourly rate including time spent applying, it was pretty low. I may not make as much out of fiverr per voiceover, but once I spent the time getting my gig right, the work now comes to me and building up regular clients, means the work is more regular than those other sites as well. So yeah, fiverr wins for me in that regard.



I have no issue with people reselling my work, over half of my current customers are video makers etc, but I did get frustrated last week when I got a terrible script and the client didn’t even want to pay an extra $5 for grammar/proofing, when they had charged the client $100 for my $5 gig (plus charged them for writing the terrible script as well by the looks of it). I just felt sorry for the client, as the VO have easily been so much better, with a few changes to the script, the middle man clearly didn’t give a crap about his client, just wanted a cheap deal, whereas I have really high standards and try to make things as good as can be and give great customer service.



@landongrace I have followed a similar strategy to yours while getting established give lots of value in the first orders to build feedback. I started out with 1 min (150 word voiceovers) delivered in 24 hours, which was a great deal for Aus and have gradually reduced it to a level that is more sustainable and worthwhile for me. I’ve only just dropped to 75 words this week, but also now charge for the express delivery, so I am starting to notice an improvement in average order value. It is now $19, so better. I don’t really get many $5 gigs, more longer ones. I do like your plan of a package deal, I’ve done that before for some custom orders, so I might try that out on a gig. Luckily the Australian VO talent on fiverr is no where near as saturated as the US - but our cost of living is so much higher that the rates here tend to be higher as well.



And @bachas yes! No free samples! I learned that early on after getting burnt 🙂

[webtelly]

@landongrace You are a genius. Thanks for the idea.