Please add an option to "accept/decline a direct gig purchase without prior agreement"

[benedictrm]

To try to clarify:

A High-Risk product would be a Logo for $15 which is clearly assembled in an online bot from clip art. This will draw in poor clients who don’t understand much about how business works. These buyers may be nice people but all too often they will have no idea how business should be done, let alone what a logo really is and therefore how it should be made. Selling such a product attracts clueless buyers and repels serious buyers. This strategy may bring lots of enquiry but returns will be low - made worse by losses with cancelled jobs.

A Low-Risk product would be a Logo for $1,500 where no images are made until a clear Brief about what the business is, who the desired customers are, and what they need to feel about the business has been made after several in-depth conversations. Images will be made by hand in a serious art package (or even drawn at first). Once a direction is chosen (remember thsi is not a pretty pic but a message encapsulated in a visual story) the final logo is developed and delivered along with a document outlining how the logo should be used, colors, etc. Preferably even color alternatives for different situations. This strategy will reduce inquiry rate but returns will be fair-good with few losses seeing the client has to be invested from the start.

The first option may try to ask for initial contact, and fail. The second option will rarely have any new client orders without a conversation first as no experienced buyer will buy without doing their research whereas many inexperienced buyers do - often before they even know what they want themselves.

[humanissocial]

@benedictrm

These buyers may be nice people but all too often they will have no idea how business should be done, let alone what a logo really is and therefore how it should be made. Selling such a product attracts clueless buyers and repels serious buyers.

Totally. Thanks for the example. This is what I mean by the product itself engaging certain types of buyers, @liamdormon. Nothing you write in your gig description changes this or its impact.

[hajirabatool]

That’s actually not possible in all types of services. Especially in scientific content writing, every task is unique and thus needs unique terms. We can generalize it up to some extent only. Like I quoted an example in a previous reply, I could write 500 words on a basic topic for 15-20$ in 24 hours, but I would need almost double the time and cost for an advanced scientific question. If I put my Gig prices on higher end, I will loose the clients looking for basic answers in lower prices. That’s the reason I am suggesting to add a control here. That can be optional for sellers to apply this control or not. I don’t think there should be any problem for clients if there is such a control button. It actually may help in a better user experience for both the buyers and sellers.

[humanissocial]

Then that’s not appropriate for Fiverr.

The solution you propose isn’t going to work, anyway. People with complex requests aren’t going to say that. They won’t know what constitutes complex and will just order the basic

[hajirabatool]

That’s why I am suggesting to add a control button “accept/decline” which would let sellers either accept or decline a direct purchase made without prior agreement or discussion. This should at least work better than how it is working right now. I think it’s way better to not initiate an order without seller’s consent than to cancel it later and reduce the rating of a seller, or demoting a seller from current level. Because such orders are not going to be entertained by a seller any way. So why not add a control button and make it more practical.

[humanissocial]

Because marketplaces can’t work that way.

[hajirabatool]

I don’t understand why are you opposing the idea of an additional control that may help both seller and and the buyer. What is the big deal?

[benedictrm]

I am confused here as marketplaces in the real world do work this way. A shop can decline service to anyone if they have fair reason (that not being color, creed etc) like not wearing clothes, swearing or demanding a $75 bottle of bourbon for $5.

If a buyer sends a $5 order with $75 worth of features/work or work/style that the seller doesn’t even do, why can that seller not decline with no fault against them?

Fiverr say to ask for an upgrade but if the buyer declines the seller is left to supper a cancellation demerit or antagonistic buyer who will hold poor review or other negative behaviors over the seller. to be fair a seller must have the right to decline work for any reason.

I might decline editing a Podcast in Hindi, not because I have a problem with Hindus but because if I have no way of separating a “valid” word from an “invalid” one how can I do the job properly?

[donnovan86]

@benedictrm

to be fair a seller must have the right to decline work for any reason.

This would make the purchase process unbearable for most buyers. The main benefit of Fiverr for buyers is that you find a service, buy it and explain what you need, then you wait for the result. Do you realize how much adding a few more steps would hurt the experience?

Some sellers are away for days, so by the time a seller replies, the buyer would just have his funds locked in the Fiverr escrow, waiting a week most likely for a seller to eventually decline.

I understand how this benefits sellers, but it would be a nightmare for Fiverr and its buyers. So I am certain this will never happen. Yes, sellers will end up dealing with cancellation penalties, but at the end of the day it all comes down to making sure that you have the right price point for what you ask. Usually when you have higher prices, you repel the bad apples.

[humanissocial]

This is the “big deal.”

You’re not thinking of how it would hurt buyers. You’re just thinking of how it would help you.

@donnovan86

This would make the purchase process unbearable for most buyers. The main benefit of Fiverr for buyers is that you find a service, buy it and explain what you need, then you wait for the result. Do you realize how much adding a few more steps would hurt the experience?

Some sellers are away for days, so by the time a seller replies, the buyer would just have his funds locked in the Fiverr escrow, waiting a week most likely for a seller to eventually decline

[benedictrm]

I get this and don’t necessarily disagree but how many sellers would knock back jobs?

If jobs were being knocked back a lot it would most likely be the bad apples anyway and surely no one actually benefits from having them around as we all know what one bad apple does the whole barrel when left there.

There must be someone who asks: What price paradise? And who is this a paradise for?

[humanissocial]

@benedictrm

A shop can decline service to anyone if they have fair reason (that not being color, creed etc) like not wearing clothes, swearing or demanding a $75 bottle of bourbon for $5

A shop is not a marketplace and so your analogy is not comparable to reality.

A marketplace is a hub where vendors are grouped together by an owner company that marks up each vendor to turn a profit.

A shop is a single or chain, autonomous vendor.

No marketplace owner would want to take the risks or manage the administration @donnovan86 describes here:

@donnovan86

This would make the purchase process unbearable for most buyers. The main benefit of Fiverr for buyers is that you find a service, buy it and explain what you need, then you wait for the result. Do you realize how much adding a few more steps would hurt the experience?

Some sellers are away for days, so by the time a seller replies, the buyer would just have his funds locked in the Fiverr escrow, waiting a week most likely for a seller to eventually decline.

It is the marketplace owner who has to do the extra work and pay for the extra costs. It’s not only risky to them, but the costs outweigh the benefits.

A shop and a marketplace are two different things.

Take note, @hajirabatool. It’s not just about what sellers want. It’s about what is best for the marketplace financially and logistically and also about what is best for buyers.

[donnovan86]

@benedictrm

I get this and don’t necessarily disagree but how many sellers would knock back jobs?

Clearly you would since you want this feature.

Also, a lot of people who want that perfect 5-star rating would just push business away and keep only simple jobs where they can get a guaranteed 5-star review. You underestimate the lengths people go to just to have a perfect rating here.

[benedictrm]

Ok Ms Social I get that point in that being a Fiverr seller is more like being a shop inside a shopping gallery where the mall management tells you when you can and can’t be open so that overall the gallery appears vibrant and convenient for shoppers. The shop is happy to pay rent to the gallery gang because they ensure that the floor gets swept and shoppers are excited to be there (and buy).

Fair enough.

Until the center management stops sweeping the floor and lets hoodlums use it as a hangout which chases away the nice people who would have hung out and brought a biryani for breakfast (it alliterates).

My worry with all the online showrooms of sellers is that they are taking the rent but doing little to ensure the quality of shoppers remains positive because they see an endless line of other sellers. Fine, if the next seller is as good as the first who left, but we all know from reality that when a certain Mr Musk leaves SoCal for West Texas crude, the people who move into his old space are not his equal. They will talk a big game as they take the free dime but none of their space ships will fly.

So again we must ask why sellers would be declining work that arrives on their doorstep - even asking for the option?

[donnovan86]

@benedictrm

So again we must ask why sellers would be declining work that arrives on their doorstep

If no one is declining orders, why do we need this feature in the first place?

[benedictrm]

That is a fair point too. I would not even think of my star rating as a general thing - or ever if it wasn’t a thing that people obsess over stars in stead of researching the seller’s portfolio.

I would be thinking, a) can I deliver this b) is the job fair?

If someone delivers me a basket case of a song where they wouldn’t know a note from a Notary, yet it is clear that they expect that for $15 I will be able to deliver them a Beyonce Grammy winning hit (as opposed to a fair but flawed result), I would have significant stress seeing that no matter what I did, no matter how much time I sunk in that job, they would be unhappy, why should I have to take that? Sir George Martin would not have. He would have politely declined.

I do see tho that whatever system is in place, certain people - the “hoodlums” - will try to game it instead of doing good work.

Today I reported a BR which was actually an advert for a seller. If this sort of thing was less prevalent, I would not be so concerned about getting those undeliverable jobs - and I don’t sell much o anything at $5.

[benedictrm]

Um that feel like a misquote and misconstrue. Did you read and understand the whole point or just take a few words and answer them rather randomly?

[humanissocial]

@benedictrm

taking the rent but doing little to ensure the quality of shoppers remains positive because they see an endless line of other sellers

I totally agree. There are lots of ways to do this that would be marketplace-friendly. Fiverr needs to step it up, but I doubt they will. So our own targeting becomes that much more important.

[donnovan86]

Clearly this type of “feature” would waste time and resources on Fiverr’s side, not to mention it will add even more costs. As a Fiverr seller for 7 years now, I see no benefit from this, even if I am online up to 16-18 hours a day. It would just cause a lot of pressure to accept an order right away, otherwise the customers end up angry.

You can write in bold “CONTACT ME BEFORE PLACING YOUR ORDER” and it will do the trick just fine. Chances are that buyers who don"t read anything like that won"t care and continue to try and manipulate your orders.

So, I don’t see any benefit here. It might help others, but implementing this feature just to help 1% of Fiverr sellers and making the purchase process for buyers a lot harder isn’t worth it.

Do you know what feature would actually matter? Being able to lock packages and not have people buy 20x the package you provide with the regular 1x deadline for your package. That’s a problem, and that’s what brought me most of my negative reviews. That is something Fiverr needs to handle, and they could make it optional, if you want to have people buy 10-20x your package, you can leave it open. If you just want to lock your packages, then you should do that. I am sure this would help a lot more people.

[benedictrm]

Donovan, I don’t think you are understanding that I am taking this as an exploratory discussion and not actually opposing you.

I haven’t had the drama of multiple instancing of ordering with same tight delivery time issue but I can see that would definitely be a problem.

Just one of several areas where Fiverr could have thought ahead or be eager to close off once they realize…

I always encourage contact before order and not having (many) $5 Gigs (and that one is exploratory and so far has only brought someone who seems unable to say what he expects I can do for him) I have not hit it here, but have elsewhere where being able to decline was a godsend compared to the red-flag-waving storm I could see coming.