Right or wrong?

[glzimmer]

Very explicitly, I presented what I needed from vendor (front cover, back cover and spine, and even more explicitly stated what I would pay. Vendor agreed to do the work according to what I would pay ….then six days later after doing nothing, providing me with nothing, she asked what my budget was for the work. I stated (making reference 4 times to what she had agreed)…and emphasizing that she had delivered nothing. I asked her to review my first message and her agreement to what I had proposed.
Now after six days have gone by (six days within which another vendor would have had the work done) she wants to renegotiate. I suggested that she do the work as agreed and for the amount agreed to. I had provided her with exact instructions as to what I wanted…six days later I received a message asking for my ‘budget’…I want to give her a bad review…what say you?

[joshcates]

Is the time and frustration worth the finished product? If you complete the order you can leave a bad review (and I would), or you could just cancel (which also negatively affects the seller).

Edit: I understand now that the seller did not place an order at all! I do not endorse trying to hijack a gig with a negative review without actually placing an order.

[glzimmer]

Is the time and frustration worth the finished product? If you complete the order you can leave a bad review (and I would), or you could just cancel (which also negatively affects the seller).

Edit: I understand now that the seller did not place an order at all! I do not endorse trying to hijack a gig with a negative review without actually placing an order.

My first message to seller:

I will provide you with specific instructions to design front cover, back cover and spine delivered to me in a pdf format. The full amount for your satisfactory delivery will be $45 and a $5 tip.

Then six days later the following:

So what’s your budget for the work so I can put together a custom offer for you now…

Six lost days and now I have to find a new seller…I hate giving a bad review but it seems justified in this case…she has a 5.0 review rating…integrity is important to me and I believe that if someone gets away with a blatant violation of an agreement…putting the screws to the next guy becomes easier…

[joshcates]

My first message to seller:

I will provide you with specific instructions to design front cover, back cover and spine delivered to me in a pdf format. The full amount for your satisfactory delivery will be $45 and a $5 tip.

Then six days later the following:

So what’s your budget for the work so I can put together a custom offer for you now…

Six lost days and now I have to find a new seller…I hate giving a bad review but it seems justified in this case…she has a 5.0 review rating…integrity is important to me and I believe that if someone gets away with a blatant violation of an agreement…putting the screws to the next guy becomes easier…

Did you have an actual order? Like, was the seller actually paid to start the work, or did they never send you over a custom offer? Had you spoken to the seller before? Did they ever reply to you beyond ‘what’s your budget’ six days later? I guess what I’m trying to find out is if you had an actual order through her or had you spoken to any degree other than ‘I want you to do this work.’ Six days later, ‘What is your budget.’

[Alex.M]

My first message to seller:

I will provide you with specific instructions to design front cover, back cover and spine delivered to me in a pdf format. The full amount for your satisfactory delivery will be $45 and a $5 tip.

Then six days later the following:

So what’s your budget for the work so I can put together a custom offer for you now…

Six lost days and now I have to find a new seller…I hate giving a bad review but it seems justified in this case…she has a 5.0 review rating…integrity is important to me and I believe that if someone gets away with a blatant violation of an agreement…putting the screws to the next guy becomes easier…

did you place an order ?

[glzimmer]

did you place an order ?

No…I have used Fiverr many times and almost always the seller does the work, submits it to me…I approve it (or suggest a revision) and when acceptable, I follow through with payment as initially agreed…so, I’m assuming that you’ll say that since there was no ‘order’ that left her the potential of changing the terms…but, in her response to my initial ‘firm’ terms …she agreed to those terms…then did no work for six days and then wanted to renegotiate and…when I referred to our agreement, she ignored it, refused to acknowledge the agreement…so, this is a Fiverr seller who violated an agreement…after agreeing to the terms…did no work for six days…and then said, in basic terms…‘go eat worms’…or fly the proverbial kite…if not dishonest certainly callous and opposite of the image I believe Fiverr wants to portray…

[joshcates]

No…I have used Fiverr many times and almost always the seller does the work, submits it to me…I approve it (or suggest a revision) and when acceptable, I follow through with payment as initially agreed…so, I’m assuming that you’ll say that since there was no ‘order’ that left her the potential of changing the terms…but, in her response to my initial ‘firm’ terms …she agreed to those terms…then did no work for six days and then wanted to renegotiate and…when I referred to our agreement, she ignored it, refused to acknowledge the agreement…so, this is a Fiverr seller who violated an agreement…after agreeing to the terms…did no work for six days…and then said, in basic terms…‘go eat worms’…or fly the proverbial kite…if not dishonest certainly callous and opposite of the image I believe Fiverr wants to portray…

If you didn’t order from her then she wasn’t obligated to do any work for you–funds are held in escrow when you place an order to ensure fairness for both parties. If there was no order and she said ‘Yeah that sounds good I can do that.’ but then never sent an offer that sounds a little funny, but I wouldn’t wait six days and then harp on it–I’d just go find another seller, and seal the deal with an order so that you aren’t waiting in limbo.

Additionally, promising payment if a seller does the work, viewing the work, then placing an order is against the terms of service. :S

[cheyennewriter]

No…I have used Fiverr many times and almost always the seller does the work, submits it to me…I approve it (or suggest a revision) and when acceptable, I follow through with payment as initially agreed…so, I’m assuming that you’ll say that since there was no ‘order’ that left her the potential of changing the terms…but, in her response to my initial ‘firm’ terms …she agreed to those terms…then did no work for six days and then wanted to renegotiate and…when I referred to our agreement, she ignored it, refused to acknowledge the agreement…so, this is a Fiverr seller who violated an agreement…after agreeing to the terms…did no work for six days…and then said, in basic terms…‘go eat worms’…or fly the proverbial kite…if not dishonest certainly callous and opposite of the image I believe Fiverr wants to portray…

Whoa, what? You’ve worked like that before? You let the seller do work without you paying any kind of money? You shouldn’t encourage that. They’re essentially working for free.

[catwriter]

No…I have used Fiverr many times and almost always the seller does the work, submits it to me…I approve it (or suggest a revision) and when acceptable, I follow through with payment as initially agreed…so, I’m assuming that you’ll say that since there was no ‘order’ that left her the potential of changing the terms…but, in her response to my initial ‘firm’ terms …she agreed to those terms…then did no work for six days and then wanted to renegotiate and…when I referred to our agreement, she ignored it, refused to acknowledge the agreement…so, this is a Fiverr seller who violated an agreement…after agreeing to the terms…did no work for six days…and then said, in basic terms…‘go eat worms’…or fly the proverbial kite…if not dishonest certainly callous and opposite of the image I believe Fiverr wants to portray…

I have used Fiverr many times and almost always the seller does the work, submits it to me…I approve it (or suggest a revision) and when acceptable, I follow through with payment as initially agreed…

Sellers are strongly advised by Fiverr never to start working until the order is actually placed. If they do start working before the order is placed, there’s no guarantee that they will be paid for their time and the work they did; “You do the work and if I like it, I’ll pay you” is not how Fiverr is meant to work, and experienced sellers typically refuse to do it or avoid buyers who suggest something like that.

Since this seller took 6 days just to respond to your message, it might be a wise idea to simply move on to someone else.

so, this is a Fiverr seller who violated an agreement

Without an actual order in place, there’s no agreement. She was under no obligation to start working on your task.

I want to give her a bad review

It’s only possible to give a review once the order was placed and after the seller delivers something.

[fonthaunt]

No…I have used Fiverr many times and almost always the seller does the work, submits it to me…I approve it (or suggest a revision) and when acceptable, I follow through with payment as initially agreed…so, I’m assuming that you’ll say that since there was no ‘order’ that left her the potential of changing the terms…but, in her response to my initial ‘firm’ terms …she agreed to those terms…then did no work for six days and then wanted to renegotiate and…when I referred to our agreement, she ignored it, refused to acknowledge the agreement…so, this is a Fiverr seller who violated an agreement…after agreeing to the terms…did no work for six days…and then said, in basic terms…‘go eat worms’…or fly the proverbial kite…if not dishonest certainly callous and opposite of the image I believe Fiverr wants to portray…

this is a Fiverr seller who violated an agreement…after agreeing to the terms…did no work for six days…and then said, in basic terms…‘go eat worms’…or fly the proverbial kite…if not dishonest certainly callous and opposite of the image I believe Fiverr wants to portray…

Since you tried to create an agreement without putting the funds in Fiverr escrow, Fiverr would not assign any blame to the seller. There is no contract at all until funds are in holding.

Even if other sellers agreed to do this for you previously it doesn’t change anything. No seller is obligated without an order and a “potential” buyer cannot leave reviews.

[glzimmer]

A buyer does not come to Fiverr knowing all the terms…many of the sellers who agreed to work without an order are sellers I have used many times and, simply agreed on a price and then proceeded. They knew they would get paid…many times when they did a revision I would pay them when not obligated simply because it was the fair thing to do. This vendor was simply taking advantage, agreed to do the work and never suggested that I place an order…twiddled her fingers for six days and then suggested that she had never agreed to do the work at a definitive cost…allowing sellers to do that is encouraging, at the least, sloppy ethics…I’m going to let it go but, I believe she’ll have problems if she continues to violate play fast and loose with ethics…thanks to all for the clarification…

[joshcates]

A buyer does not come to Fiverr knowing all the terms…many of the sellers who agreed to work without an order are sellers I have used many times and, simply agreed on a price and then proceeded. They knew they would get paid…many times when they did a revision I would pay them when not obligated simply because it was the fair thing to do. This vendor was simply taking advantage, agreed to do the work and never suggested that I place an order…twiddled her fingers for six days and then suggested that she had never agreed to do the work at a definitive cost…allowing sellers to do that is encouraging, at the least, sloppy ethics…I’m going to let it go but, I believe she’ll have problems if she continues to violate play fast and loose with ethics…thanks to all for the clarification…

twiddled her fingers for six days and then suggested that she had never agreed to do the work at a definitive cost

If an order was not placed then she did NOT agree to do the work at a definitive cost.

[lenasemenkova]

A buyer does not come to Fiverr knowing all the terms…many of the sellers who agreed to work without an order are sellers I have used many times and, simply agreed on a price and then proceeded. They knew they would get paid…many times when they did a revision I would pay them when not obligated simply because it was the fair thing to do. This vendor was simply taking advantage, agreed to do the work and never suggested that I place an order…twiddled her fingers for six days and then suggested that she had never agreed to do the work at a definitive cost…allowing sellers to do that is encouraging, at the least, sloppy ethics…I’m going to let it go but, I believe she’ll have problems if she continues to violate play fast and loose with ethics…thanks to all for the clarification…

This is not how fiverr works. If you want to hire someone to do the job, you can purchase a gig or send a custom offer request to the person and purchase that custom offer. That way, you’re getting a guaranteed contract.

“I’ll pay if I like it” or “I’ll pay when it’s done” is a ToS violation (and a popuar scam tactic) and the fact that you’re admitting openly to committing it multiple times is just ???

She was wrong for not explicitly telling you she wouldn’t start working until her services are paid for, that’s it. She wasn’t obligated to start working before the order was placed and it’s a good thing that she didn’t.

[sue_mcl]

A buyer does not come to Fiverr knowing all the terms…many of the sellers who agreed to work without an order are sellers I have used many times and, simply agreed on a price and then proceeded. They knew they would get paid…many times when they did a revision I would pay them when not obligated simply because it was the fair thing to do. This vendor was simply taking advantage, agreed to do the work and never suggested that I place an order…twiddled her fingers for six days and then suggested that she had never agreed to do the work at a definitive cost…allowing sellers to do that is encouraging, at the least, sloppy ethics…I’m going to let it go but, I believe she’ll have problems if she continues to violate play fast and loose with ethics…thanks to all for the clarification…

This vendor was simply taking advantage, agreed to do the work and never suggested that I place an order…twiddled her fingers for six days and then suggested that she had never agreed to do the work at a definitive cost

All that seems to have happened is that you sent a vendor a message (which she didn’t reply to) which indicates she didn’t (and still hasn’t) agreed to anything.

I hardly think she is the terrible agreement breaking seller you are making her out to be, and she certainly wasn’t taking advantage just because she didn’t reply to your order request message in a shorter time frame (and she absolutely has the right to come back to you with a higher price if she feels it appropriate - sellers don’t have to accept what a buyer offers).

They knew they would get paid

There is absolutely no way someone can know they will get paid in this situation. Any sellers who have worked with you in this way must have been new and not understood how fiverr works (and put themselves at risk by doing so) The only way they know they will get paid is when an order is placed. I will never work for any client without an order, as there is no protection for the work.

The whole point of ordering is that fiverr holds the funds until the client completes the order. No seller should EVER work under these circumstances and it shows “sloppy ethics” on your part to expect that, when there is a system in place that every buyer and seller agrees to use when they agree to fiverr’s terms of service.

[uxreview]

Very explicitly, I presented what I needed from vendor (front cover, back cover and spine, and even more explicitly stated what I would pay. Vendor agreed to do the work according to what I would pay ….then six days later after doing nothing, providing me with nothing, she asked what my budget was for the work. I stated (making reference 4 times to what she had agreed)…and emphasizing that she had delivered nothing. I asked her to review my first message and her agreement to what I had proposed.

Now after six days have gone by (six days within which another vendor would have had the work done) she wants to renegotiate. I suggested that she do the work as agreed and for the amount agreed to. I had provided her with exact instructions as to what I wanted…six days later I received a message asking for my ‘budget’…I want to give her a bad review…what say you?

I want to give her a bad review…what say you?

You can only review orders that have been delivered. Since you didn’t actually make an order there’s nothing to review.

As I understand you’ve worked with desperate sellers before who have not read Fiverr TOS, but in this case the seller didn’t really do anything wrong. They were maybe slow to respond, but since there was no order with deadlines it’s fine.

Tip for sellers: Never provide a service before there’s an actual order. Otherwise there’s no commitment on buyer’s side to make the payment.

Tip for buyers: Once you have agreed on the project details and accepted seller’s offer, please place an actual order which will commit the seller to the project & timeline.

[cyaxrex]

A buyer does not come to Fiverr knowing all the terms…many of the sellers who agreed to work without an order are sellers I have used many times and, simply agreed on a price and then proceeded. They knew they would get paid…many times when they did a revision I would pay them when not obligated simply because it was the fair thing to do. This vendor was simply taking advantage, agreed to do the work and never suggested that I place an order…twiddled her fingers for six days and then suggested that she had never agreed to do the work at a definitive cost…allowing sellers to do that is encouraging, at the least, sloppy ethics…I’m going to let it go but, I believe she’ll have problems if she continues to violate play fast and loose with ethics…thanks to all for the clarification…

This vendor was simply taking advantage, agreed to do the work and never suggested that I place an order…twiddled her fingers for six days and then suggested that she had never agreed to do the work at a definitive cost…allowing sellers to do that is encouraging, at the least, sloppy ethics…

With all due respect, I have people send me messages very similar to your original message to your seller. I respond by perhaps quoting a price and a turnaround time. Then I get back “Great! Thanks!” Then the buyer disappears.

3-days later I get messages asking why an order isn’t ready. I politely inform whomever it is that no order has been placed and/or that no custom offer has been accepted. This often infuriates people so I simply stop replying to further messages.

The person you have contacted has likely not understood that you think you have an order in progress. I would also go as far to say that no one but perhaps the most desperate of sellers would agree to work to your terms. In fact, if you said to me:

I will provide you with specific instructions to design front cover, back cover and spine delivered to me in a pdf format. The full amount for your satisfactory delivery will be $45 and a $5 tip.

I’d flag you as a likely con artist. Not only are you asking me to work without placing an order, you are also using a $5 tip as an incentive which makes no sense. Why would you pay $45 and then $5 separately and incur two transaction fees? Why not just say I’ll pay you $50?

As others have already pointed out, your seller has no obligation to provide you with work. You are not using Fiverr in the way the platform is intended to be used. You might have had success with this way of ordering previously. However, you have either been very lucky or the people you have worked with have been extremely desperate.

[solow13]

A buyer does not come to Fiverr knowing all the terms…many of the sellers who agreed to work without an order are sellers I have used many times and, simply agreed on a price and then proceeded. They knew they would get paid…many times when they did a revision I would pay them when not obligated simply because it was the fair thing to do. This vendor was simply taking advantage, agreed to do the work and never suggested that I place an order…twiddled her fingers for six days and then suggested that she had never agreed to do the work at a definitive cost…allowing sellers to do that is encouraging, at the least, sloppy ethics…I’m going to let it go but, I believe she’ll have problems if she continues to violate play fast and loose with ethics…thanks to all for the clarification…

You should know how fiverr works if you already have previous buying experiences, what you are trying to do is to trick the system by doing this you can get you and the buyer in trouble.

[glzimmer]

Yes, I am trying to trick the system by openly asking for advice on this forum…incredibly insightful…by admitting that I may have errored and attempting to find the way to do it right…I am called a trickster and a con artist…apart from the name callers…others have been helpful! I thank them for boosting my knowledge…I’ll do better in the future…

[pacquo]

Yes, I am trying to trick the system by openly asking for advice on this forum…incredibly insightful…by admitting that I may have errored and attempting to find the way to do it right…I am called a trickster and a con artist…apart from the name callers…others have been helpful! I thank them for boosting my knowledge…I’ll do better in the future…

Yes, I am trying to trick the system

Yes. And, to answer to the question in the title, you are wrong.

[cubittaudio]

This vendor was simply taking advantage, agreed to do the work and never suggested that I place an order…twiddled her fingers for six days and then suggested that she had never agreed to do the work at a definitive cost

All that seems to have happened is that you sent a vendor a message (which she didn’t reply to) which indicates she didn’t (and still hasn’t) agreed to anything.

I hardly think she is the terrible agreement breaking seller you are making her out to be, and she certainly wasn’t taking advantage just because she didn’t reply to your order request message in a shorter time frame (and she absolutely has the right to come back to you with a higher price if she feels it appropriate - sellers don’t have to accept what a buyer offers).

They knew they would get paid

There is absolutely no way someone can know they will get paid in this situation. Any sellers who have worked with you in this way must have been new and not understood how fiverr works (and put themselves at risk by doing so) The only way they know they will get paid is when an order is placed. I will never work for any client without an order, as there is no protection for the work.

The whole point of ordering is that fiverr holds the funds until the client completes the order. No seller should EVER work under these circumstances and it shows “sloppy ethics” on your part to expect that, when there is a system in place that every buyer and seller agrees to use when they agree to fiverr’s terms of service.

The whole point of ordering is that fiverr holds the funds until the client completes the order. No seller should EVER work under these circumstances and it shows “sloppy ethics” on your part to expect that, when there is a system in place that every buyer and seller agrees to use when they agree to fiverr’s terms of service.

I’d flag you as a likely con artist. Not only are you asking me to work without placing an order, you are also using a $5 tip as an incentive which makes no sense. Why would you pay $45 and then $5 separately and incur two transaction fees? Why not just say I’ll pay you $50?

As others have already pointed out, your seller has no obligation to provide you with work. You are not using Fiverr in the way the platform is intended to be used. You might have had success with this way of ordering previously. However, you have either been very lucky or the people you have worked with have been extremely desperate.

Couldn’t agree with these statements more. Fiverr is not a difficult concept to understand, from the perspective of a Seller or a Buyer. You use the Messaging system to discuss your needs, you order when in agreement, and Fiverr uses it’s Escrow system to ensure both parties get what they should from the deal. Customer Support is there if things go wrong, and you can tip if you want to. Simple.

Nowhere on the system does it suggest that buyers can make demands of sellers without the exchange of money, or enter into an ‘agreement’ just by laying out their demands in a message. I really don’t know how some buyers come to the conclusion that this is how the system works, other than that’s how they would like it to work, and they chance their luck with inexperienced sellers.

Any buyer even hinting that we should circumvent the system and work on the promise of possible payment would be getting blocked and reported to Customer Support.

[catwriter]

Yes, I am trying to trick the system by openly asking for advice on this forum…incredibly insightful…by admitting that I may have errored and attempting to find the way to do it right…I am called a trickster and a con artist…apart from the name callers…others have been helpful! I thank them for boosting my knowledge…I’ll do better in the future…

I am called a trickster and a con artist

A lot of real scammers do what you said you did: promise payment if they like the work, and promise a tip, too. And then, once the work is delivered, simply disappear. That’s why you’ve received that kind of response, because many sellers have been burned by dishonest buyers who acted that way.

A buyer does not come to Fiverr knowing all the terms

That’s understandable, and that’s why Fiverr’s terms are written in an easy to understand language: https://www.fiverr.com/terms_of_service